build thread from the wind tunnel

[Gunnibronco]

Nice Score! Those JounceShocks still have the Light Racing older light racing logo. I rarely saw a JS that needed rebuilt, but SPC still sells the seal kits and spanner wrenches if you need them.

Thanks for chiming in with the positive reviews. A friend suggested I look at the SPC stuff due to my limited space. He had used both the 1.5" and 3" models before and loved them. I was just going to go with a rubber/foam/urethane bump stop due to the cost. I'm super lucky to get a set of 2 for well under $200. The upper mount cups weren't included, but should arrive tomorrow from Summit.

[Gunnibronco]

That is a thing of beauty! What does that housing weigh?

97#



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[Gunnibronco]

Since Fed Ex sent my bumpstop mounts "the scenic" route, I decided to redo my exhaust, shock mounts are finished and painted.

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Since I'm replacing/moving the rear bump stops, I can get rid of the exhaust running between the body and frame, overheating the floor. If I like the sound I'll do some heat shields and wrap to help keep the cab cooler. With winter here, it's not a pressing issue.

Years ago I bought cheapo 2 chamber Summit muffler, a couple 2.5" strap clamps and some 3" and 2.5" exhaust elbows. I picked up two 2.5"x3" reducers from Oreily today and replumbed everything. With some "adjustments" to the existing system, and the parts I had/picked up, I was able to fabricobble something together. I'm pretty happy with the results. Tail pipe is a few inches from the end of the truck, it's tucked up tight to the frame and shouldn't get hit too often. Hopefully tail pipe location is ok and the muffler isn't obnoxious.

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[Gunnibronco]

I placed the order for 2 Gearworks 10" diffs with 5.13s and ARBs.

I ordered the 3.81" bearing housing with 2 load bolts. This center section is their own design and has a lot of extra strength and material over the 3.25" housing. It will also allow me to upgrade to 40 spline if the day ever comes.

I ended up going with a HP for both the front and rear. I had a long discussion with them and they assured me I would most likely never break the HP in the rear. They said they have a lot of very heavy, very high power rigs running HP rears and see little or no breakage. I decided that the added clearance and better driveshaft angles were worth it. The HP was also a little cheaper because they offer a non-REM finished Nitro gear for the HP. All their LP gears are REM finished which doesn't really add anything to a crawler, it's for high speed trophy trucks. All the Nitro gears are shot peened before hardening, which adds about 30% strength.

They disassemble and check their ARBs before assembly. They clean them up and make some minor "adjustments" to improve reliability over the stock ARB assembly.

All their diffs are run for 30 minutes after assembly before shipping.

I took the money I "saved" by skipping the REM finishing and put it into some protection and added their HP skid plates to each diff. Figured I should to protect the investment.

The 9" 35 spline ARBs are back ordered, and won't be available till late January unless they find another source. It's really not a big deal, I've got plenty to do and I wasn't doing this on a schedule. I think I should be able to set up the axles before the diffs come.

I am not going with a full floating rear axle. I asked Jason why he went semi-float and he explained the full float ends are more difficult to get installed with perfect alignment, and he didn't think the added strength was needed. The ff spindles and hubs (or machining to 5x5.5) was going to add a lot to the build. I'm going to use Explorer rear brakes (I'll rob them off the axle I have waiting for my 39 Plymouth). I'll replace them with Pick-n-Pull, the Plymouth can wait. LOL.

Finally, my Summit "Tour of the Southwest" order arrived. SPC/Light Racing Jounce Stop mounts, Moser housing ends for the rear axle and Currie Explorer brake spacers. Pics to follow.

Barnes, Ruffstuff, and Ballistic orders inbound. I didn't mean to coordinate with Black Friday, but I did my best to take advantage of the timing. I'm picking up DOM locally, I have a good source who is cheaper than the big metal shops.

One last order to place for brake brackets, then "normal" stuff like bearings, rotors, etc will need to be sourced. I *think* everything is accounted for but I'm sure there will be some surprises. I need to find a machine shop to mill & redrill the hubs and there are some minor adjustments needed for the front brake rotors. I'll need to redrill the Explorer rear rotors or buy the Currie/Moser off the shelf rotors. A friend just brought a mill and lathe home from a family member so I may tackle it myself with his help. I'm always happy to save some money and learn a little at the same time.

[Jesus_man]

Sounds like an amazing set of axles! I suppose there was no two for one deals?? LOL!

I don't think you'll be sorry for going HP in the rear. What do the skid plates look like? Or are we talking Pinion Guards?

Are you sticking with 5x5.5 lug pattern? CJ rotors are 5x5.5 if that helps at all.

[Gunnibronco]

No Two-fer, no Black Friday. They did throw in 3 gallons of synthetic gear oil.

The skid plate is a legit skid plate, not a pinion guard. I'm going to skip the pinion guard since everything is HP. I had one on my Ruffstuff order, but cancelled it.

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I'm staying 5x5.5. I was considering going to 8x6.5 so I didn't have to mess with the front hubs & brakes, but you can't get a semi-float 9" axle with 8x6.5. Plus I just bought 5x5.5 beadlocks, so going full floating and changing wheels got expensive. Once Jason said FF wasn't needed and was more difficult to build, it sealed the deal.

The Explorer rear rotor just needs redrilled for 5x5.5.

In the front, Jason used a Lugnut4x4 brake adapter, Wilwood/Chevy caliper and a 2008 Dakota rotor (the ID of the rotor needs opened up to fit over the D60 hub). I'm planning to copy his set up since he's using the same ball joint D60 stuff that I have.

[Jesus_man]

That skid plate looks nice! Bolt-on at pinion, then weld the tabs and rock-n-roll! It's always better to spend the money on protecting stuff before you need it. Just ask my rockers.

[Rox Crusher]

You aren’t fooling around!

[Gunnibronco]

You aren’t fooling around!

In typical fashion this started out as one thing and spiraled into something else.

Honestly if Hi-9 hadn't been backordered and I hadn't found Gearworks stuff this would look very different.

I expect I'll still own these axles when I die. One and done.

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[Gunnibronco]

Nice Score! Those JounceShocks still have the Light Racing older light racing logo. I rarely saw a JS that needed rebuilt, but SPC still sells the seal kits and spanner wrenches if you need them.

I'm suspect of one of them. It showed a little bit of oil around the shaft at the body/oring. I cleaned it off and set it aside for a few days and it's wet with oil again.

I did a little searching without much success, but one post said these were hard to rebuild without damaging them. And they should be sent in for rebuild. What is your suggestion? Does it sound like it needs rebuilt? Should I do it myself? I don't know where to go for nitrogen recharge, but can probably find someone around here to do it.

There isn't much info on these I can find on-line.

Thanks

[Gunnibronco]

Finally wrapping up the new bump stops for the rear.

Pretty happy with how they turned out. I'll have 4.5" up travel before they stop. The springs will be slightly beyond "flat".

I could gain another inch or two if I lower the spring perches to where they should have been. Lowering them 2" will allow me to remove the 1" block, and get back to about a 3.5" lift with the weight in the truck. I doubt the springs would put up with 6.5" uptravel very long. I'd probably have to add a spacer to limit it back closer to 5". We'll see if I do that, maybe when I swap axles. I'll be setting pinion angle, and I don't want to do it twice.

Upper threaded mounts

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Welded up

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Clamped/temped onto the 3/16" plate frame reinforcement

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Welded on

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Painted and done. Just need to finish up the driver side, reinstall shocks and tailpipe.

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[Gunnibronco]

Some HP610 axle parts pics.

Torino housing ends. Moser said these were "butt weld" but they have a lip to insert into the housing ends. I'm actually happier they do I'll be more confident setting them in place, but they don't quite slip into my housings, I'll have to have about 1/4 milled off.

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Currie spacers for the Explorer rear brakes.

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Ballistic coil spring/radius arm mounts & Barnes track bar mount

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Got a Ruffstuff order in but no pics, lost of heims, poly bushings with DOM sleeves, leaf spring perches, 9" axle measuring tool, and other misc fab stuff.

I screwed up and only ordered 2 u-bolts, news flash, you need 4.

I was also told about a MetalCloak radius arm disconnect that I'm considering. Looks like a cool option to help add flex to a radius arm set up. I'll have to figure a way to attach the front end to the Ballistic radius arm mounts.
https://metalcloak.com/lock-n-load-repl ... tj-lj.html

[Jesus_man]

Looking great from here!!

[Kinder]

I love following along with suspension builds, I’ve always kept the stock style in my rigs (minus longer arms), maybe one day I’ll have the guts to cut it all out and try my hand something custom.

[Gunnibronco]

I love following along with suspension builds, I’ve always kept the stock style in my rigs (minus longer arms), maybe one day I’ll have the guts to cut it all out and try my hand something custom.

It's been a long, sometimes frustrating process. I'm considering one small tweak to the rear set up and a slight revamp to the front (due to axle swap)already. Hopefully I can get to a point where I leave well enough alone for a while. But I'm probably kidding myself.

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[Gunnibronco]

All wrapped up, and taken for a test drive.

Sounds good, about the same volume/sound as the $90 Dynomax Turbo muffler removed and replaced with a $25 Summit 2 Chamber muffler. Hope it lasts, some of the reviews said they quickly fall apart. Despite the tailpipe about 6" back from the end of the frame, there was no exhaust smell in the cab, unlike the previous "professional" install. Floor was much cooler too. I'm just glad it only cost me a day in the shop and a few parts to undo and redo the system I paid good money for.

Drives well, haven't tested the bump stops yet. Test drive was all road miles.

Some weird electrical 'gremlins' popped up.

The fuel pump sounds louder than before, I think its the Carter LP pump.

No blinkers, heater fan, wipers (probably no brake lights?) on the first leg. Stopped, checked fuses- all good. Turned the truck on again and everything worked. Maybe a problem in the ignition switch? Problems haven't returned.

[Gunnibronco]

I've been working on getting my York OBA back in business. I'm waiting on a couple small parts and then I'll post up pics and what I did.

Here are a few pics of HP610 parts that have arrived.

Front brakes, ala Crawlercreations. Lugnut4x4 caliper hangers, JB6 Chevy calipers, stainless brake hoses, Powerstop drilled/slotted 2007 Dodge Dakota rotors (these will need the center bore opened up to fit the milled D60 hubs), Raybestos hybrid pads.

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Rear brakes are drilled/slotted Powerstop kit, the rotors will have to be redrilled for 5x5.5

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Now the dirty work. Pulled out all my D60 stuff.

Pulled the rotors off the hubs, pressed out the studs, removed seals, bearings, and races and preped for the lathe.

Also pulled the left over tube ends out of my inner C's. That sucked, but 4 cut off wheels and several sawzall blades later they were out. These will need opened up to 3.5". The stock D60 axle tubes are 3.125" (.5" wall).

I think I'll be able to have the stock inner axles cut and resplined, unless freight to Dutchman pushes the cost close to new chromos.

I have found someone who has a lathe and mill and is willing to take on the task. If his equipment can't do the job he knows someone with bigger stuff. Best part is I can look over his shoulder and learn a little along the way. So that is a big win. Hopefully I can do this in the next week or two.

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[Jesus_man]

Love to watch your progress! I met a old friend while in TX over Christmas who opened his own machine shop a few years ago. He has some sweet toys! He's got some D60 stuff, as well as a lot of misc other items:
https://www.tdsideas.com/

[Gunnibronco]

Love to watch your progress! I met a old friend while in TX over Christmas who opened his own machine shop a few years ago. He has some sweet toys! He's got some D60 stuff, as well as a lot of misc other items:
https://www.tdsideas.com/

Cool stuff.

I need to figure out how tight a fit needs machined between the tubes and the inner Cs. I don't want to make the installation unnecessarily difficult. I've been reading about heating the C's and cooling the tubes with dry ice to fit together.

Honestly as tight as the C's were on the stock tubes I had to cut through the tubes 2x with a sawzall before they would budge in my little 12T press. I can't imagine trying to cut and turn them to adjust caster and keep the tubes.

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[Kinder]

Congrats on getting the Cs off, I still have a set on the shelf that I need to get the leftover tubes out of. I’ve cut quite a bit but I guess more is needed to press them out, my 20 ton press wouldn’t budge them.

Question - Does the tube extend all the way through the C without a lip on the outer face? It looks like that on your pics.

The few times I’ve had items machined for bore there is usually a discussion between slip fit and press fit, I’ll guess that you need a press fit spec or the next tighter fit from there.

[Gunnibronco]

Congrats on getting the Cs off, I still have a set on the shelf that I need to get the leftover tubes out of. I’ve cut quite a bit but I guess more is needed to press them out, my 20 ton press wouldn’t budge them.

Question - Does the tube extend all the way through the C without a lip on the outer face? It looks like that on your pics.

The few times I’ve had items machined for bore there is usually a discussion between slip fit and press fit, I’ll guess that you need a press fit spec or the next tighter fit from there.

Yes, the tube extends all the way through the C with no lip. I used a 4.5" thin cut off wheel to cut all the way through the tube as close to the knuckle as possible. Then I used a grinding disk to take the weld down and see the tube/C were separate and all the weld was removed (hard to explain). It still wouldn't budge at all in the press (even with heat/hammer). Then I cut through the tube right to the C's ID, one cut wasn't enough. It took a second cut in each tube, then they moved very easily. Turns out lots of people recommend the cuts. Wish I found that info before I did this.

Regarding the ID/OD tolerances, this is the best I've found on-line at this point. Press fit seems to be the 'spec'. Some argue that it isn't needed. I just don't want to end up stuck with a C I can't get all the way on or with the wrong caster. Or on the other end I don't want the fit to be too loose and end up losing an outer on the trail. That would suck.

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Yesterday I was talking with a co-worker who is in the Sacramento office of my company. Turns out he used to work for Wide Open Designs. He's built LOTS of custom axles. I'm going to ask him what he thinks. I was just stunned when I learned what he used to do and didn't think to ask him. I asked if he would look over my set up before I make things permanent and he said he'd be happy to. He is taking over part of my territory (my last day if Friday) and he'll be in South Lake Tahoe a lot (just 30 minutes from my house).

[Gunnibronco]

On board air is done.

Resealed the pump head and drilled and tapped the input/outlet flanges.

I replaced the plastic paint gun air filter with a metal can/replaceable paper filter and added two small particulite/coelesing filters so I should be good to feed the ARBs.

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Before the Atlas/ZF5 swap I had a small oxygen tank strapped under the bed, but it won't fit once a anti-wrap bar is added, so it needed a new home. I used a couple exhaust clamps and made it mount to the cage. The manifold, gauges, regulator and pressure switch came off a dead cheapo compressor. I've left a T near the air hose coupler mounted to the cage leg behind the passenger door. That T will feed the ARB solenoids. I also added a bung to run a drain from the tank.

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Tested it out and filled two tires from 12# to 30# in a reasonable amount of time even just at idle.

[Jesus_man]

Great work! You know, Garry put a high-idle on my computer and that's amazing for things like winching and air compressing! ...and warming up the engine.

[Kinder]

Serious OBA system, makes the twin ARB compressor with 1gal tank we put on TFB look like kid stuff, I like it.

[Gunnibronco]

Great work! You know, Garry put a high-idle on my computer and that's amazing for things like winching and air compressing! ...and warming up the engine.

Interesting. How is the high-idle triggered? I have a hand throttle using a bicycle derailleur thumb shifter. I can adjust it and lock it down to set a higher rpm. It definitely s out more oil at higher RPMs. I think if the compressor was set on the end instead of the side it would loose less oil. Or there is this option I found:
https://offroadonly.com/shop/on-board-a ... nned-head/

Serious OBA system, makes the twin ARB compressor with 1gal tank we put on TFB look like kid stuff, I like it.

Thanks. It was an attempt to reuse/upgrade what I already had, and make sure I'm not sending crap into my ARBs.

With this powering my ARBs I am trying to build as much reliability into it as possible. I added a Schrader valve just in case something upstream of the tank breaks. I can then at least fill the tank and keep running the lockers. I'll carry a small electric Vlair as a back up. It will be interesting to see how long a charged tank can keep up with the lockers. I think the O2 tank is about 2 gallons, I can't remember, it's not very big. (EDIT according to an on line calculator it's probably closer to 1.5 gallons).

The pressure switch from the old compressor is only 70#/100# and I'll upgrade it to a 90#/120# when the ARBs arrive.

The Genie unloader/check valve is sort of acting up, it unloads while filling, but still fills up ok. This is probably due to the required CFM air flow to close the unloader. At the higher pressures and low RPMs I think it's not flowing enough to close the unloader. I'm going to try bumping the RPMs up and see if it will close the unloader. There are smaller Genie valves but the CFM of the York exceeds the capacity of the smaller size. So I may have to stick with this set up.

[Justin]

My bronco is set up with a high idle switch. Garry can confirm, but it's basically wiring the circuit that up-idles the engine to compensate for AC load through a switch instead of a relay, then making the related programming adjustments in the ECU. Mine will idle at 1500rpm, which is handy with the manual transmission during creepy crawly stuff offroad.

[Jesus_man]

My bronco is set up with a high idle switch. Garry can confirm, but it's basically wiring the circuit that up-idles the engine to compensate for AC load through a switch instead of a relay, then making the related programming adjustments in the ECU. Mine will idle at 1500rpm, which is handy with the manual transmission during creepy crawly stuff offroad.

That sounds about right. Was there an additional circuit board involved? I don't recall, but it is switch actuated.

[Justin]

No, it's all set up through the ECU. Only parts I added were some wire and the switch.

[Gunnibronco]

Thanks, I'll check with Garry at some point about this.

I think JD is running Mustang EFI (like me) and Justin is running Explorer EFI, so there may be a difference how to accomplish the high idle.

If I remember, I sent an ECU to Garry when I first got up and running. They were both throwing codes that they shouldn't (they still are). He mentioned it had the extra circuitry needed for high idle (I think). So hopefully it wouldn't be a difficult upgrade.

[Gunnibronco]

I've contacted a local guy who builds steering 14 bolts and he is going to do all my machine work and let me set my pinion angles and caster. I'm also going to let him do the finish welding on the inner c's. I'm sure I can do it, but I don't want to risk a sub-par weld or possibly warp the housing. He's going to let me watch over his shoulder during the machine and welding. I think it's money well spent.

He said there is no need to get a "press fit" between the C's and the tubes. He'll machine for an interference fit where the C's can be installed and adjusted with a hammer.

Unfortunately, COVID/supply chain/lockdowns have my center sections in limbo. Gearworks doesn't know when they will receive 35 spline ARBs. They are completely out and don't have any regular or competition ARB lockers. They are the largest distributor of ARB competition lockers in the US. They "hope" they are in route, but ARB isn't giving them any info. I hope this doesn't drag out 6 months.

They have a billet automatic locker that I could substitute for the ARBs. JD if you want to try and talk me out of the ARBs (especially in the front), I'm open to suggestions. But I'm still having trouble imagining that I want an auto locker in the front. I don't have hydro assist yet, but it's not an impossible upgrade at this point. I've gone into budgeting mode, as I changed jobs a couple weeks ago and income is going to be limited for a while. I'm going to swallow hard and buy the rest of the stuff for the axles (axle shafts, u-joints, bearings, etc) but need to reel things in at this point. I need to decide if I go with normal ball joints or use a ball joint delete too. The delete would be the best for long term reliability but adds to costs significantly.