69 Dudes-- Just the beginning

[Eck]

I am thrusting myself back into the EB world once again. I owned a 69 when I was in HS and college only to sell it for a more reliable commuter and daily driver Jeep. Now that I am all growed up and have a little cash in the wallet, I am really excited to be the proud owner of the interum named "Blanco Bronco." (A color change is most likely in store.) I bought this beauty about 3 months ago and the brakes were in immediate need of some TLC. The thing pulled hard to the left when braking and so my first official project was a disc brake conversion and PB booster from Toms. In short hindsight, it appears I could've/should've gone with a HB, but did not know of that upgrade at the time. I finished the conversion last weekend and after a few side projects and hiccups, I got her stopping straight and pretty darn good.

Soooo, that leaves me a long list of things I plan to do moving forward:
(in no particular order)
- Power Steering Conversion
- Rear Lockers - they are currently locked all the time and I am not sure if they were welded locked or somehow modified that way...either way, I hate them locked all time.
- New seats, interior re-finish, and stereo
- Exterior body work and sheet metal-- prep for paint and re-paint
- Locate matching wheel and tire for spare
- Heater/blower upgrade
- New trim/exterior accessories
- Extend the current roll bar to cover the front area

I am certainly considering myself a newbie when it comes to knowing how to do a lot of this stuff and am looking for any help and suggestions. I would like for my next project to be the interior/exterior body work, sheet metal, and paint prep. I do not know how to weld but would love to maybe get a tech day together and learn as well as get the sheet metal work accomplished on my rig (any takers? I make a pretty mean homemade pizza!)


-Skip

[akaFrankCastle]

Great looking truck, Skip. Happy to have you aboard.

Looks like your inner fenders might have a touch of the mange that so commonly attacks us.

Some work was done to that motor recently. Prior to you buying?

Still rocking the 3 speed in there?

[Eck]

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Mange? YES!! and it has spread thus my desire to get that taken care of first. That is why I am desperately needing to get the welding/sheet metal done so I can start the sanding and prepping for paint process.

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Both sides are relatively the same-- rockers, floor boards, as well as the inner fenders. Also, the driver door needs some serious work. You should be able to see in this picture the inside where the door hinge mounts is completely held together by the PO's duct tape method...

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As for the engine work you mention-- I have no clue, I am very novice with engine stuff but this project is where I start to learn, right? I can say that it is still the 3 spd (which I like) and has been moved to a floor shifter.

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Couple things I left off of my earlier TO DO LIST: New wiring and a 23 gallon main rear tank upgrade. It currently only has one tank and is the small one-- not gonna work once I hit the trails!



And finally-- the rear end. Can anyone help my identify it?

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[Justin]

Lol, mange. Nice rig. I'm Radio Flyer over on ACB, nailed the model # on your winch for you. Welcome!

[Eck]

Lol, mange. Nice rig. I'm Radio Flyer over on ACB, nailed the model # on your winch for you. Welcome!

Thanks-- I figure knowledge is power and posting up on a couple of these local sites can't hurt. It seems there is a good amount of overlap between the two as well. Thanks again on the winch info.

[Justin]

Missed your question about which rear end you have on the first read-through. Measure the diameter of your brake drums. If they're 11"x2 1/4" wide (brake pad width, not drum width, you've got a 76-77 big bearing rear end. If they're 11"x1 3/4" wide you have one of the 66-75 big bearing rears. With 10" drums you you probably have a small bearing rear, but could have the weird hybrid 74-75 "medium duty" rears that have the larger bearings but 10" drums. You can also measure the spacing of the flange bolts to tell. Post up those measurements and I can probably tell you which one you have. Also, are you planning to tackle your bodywork yourself?

[Eck]

I will measure Sunday-- heading up to the mountains for the weekend to get the first ski day in for the season.

As for body work-- I have two issues. 1. Never done it before. 2. I have a one-car garage I am working out of (has small sidebays that give me some space.) I would not mind doing body work myself, would especially be interested in doing it if there were some members that would be interested in helping with some of the welding. Regardless, I plan to sand and prep for paint on my own. I noticed your profile pic involves some welding masks-- are you easily persuaded with frosty bevs and pizza?!!

-Skip

[Justin]

Have fun skiing! Body work isn't too hard if you're not seeking perfection. I'm a fan of both frosty beverages and pizza. I'd be happy to help you with your rig, (mostly) finished up a major repair job on mine earlier this year. I'm no pro, but I'm not as clueless as I used to be and the repairs yours needed aren't that hard. Pics of what I did on mine are most of the way down my build thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3159. Your small garage shouldn't be an issue. Landshark's might be smaller than his Bronco and he's about to have one of the nicest rigs in the club.

[Eck]

I'm a fan of both frosty beverages and pizza. I'd be happy to help you with your rig, (mostly) finished up a major repair job on mine earlier this year. I'm no pro, but I'm not as clueless as I used to be and the repairs yours needed aren't that hard. Pics of what I did on mine are most of the way down my build thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3159. Your small garage shouldn't be an issue. Landshark's might be smaller than his Bronco and he's about to have one of the nicest rigs in the club.

Justin-

So didn't make it to the slopes-- was staying about 20 minutes from A Basin so drove over and the parking lot was full and the line was heading up the mountain (snow wasn't near good enough for those kind of lines!)

I measured the brakes and they look to be around 11in (maybe just over..hard to get a meauserement down the middle since the shaft is in the way. I am guessing its a large bearing. I did check out your build and it looks like a good number of the things I need done to mine were part of your repairs as well. I am not looking to get the thing restored to "show" quality but definitely wanted to do a very good job. It doesn't look to be too difficult if you have the equipment and kinda know how to weld. I would love your help if you ar available. I was maybe looking at Sunday, Nov. 18th? I have a couple buddies that are always willing to lend a hand as well although they don't know a whole lot either.

As for the materials-- what is your suggestion for the sheet metal? I have seen numerious sites that sell the pre fabbed steel replacement pieces. Are those the best to go with, and if so, does one particular vendor have a better reputation for quality steel over others?

Thanks for offering to help. I guess the only other question would be whether I need to invest in a welding machine or if you have one we could use. I suppose if I can learn it will eventually be something I may want to have but obviously would rather throw the money into the rig if possible.

-Skip

[Justin]

I've got a welder, helmets, etc. that I can bring over. It's a great investment if you're building a trail truck. I'm planning to fab my own winch bumper sometime this winter and am also going to make some additions to my roll cage. The welding part of the job is easy once you mostly get the hang of it. Burning in the spot welds is easy, stitching takes a little more practice. I'm happy to teach you what I know. If you're thinking about learning, I've been looking into taking a welding course somewhere locally and would love company. Not sure about the 18th. I'm hosting the Hydroboost tech day on the 10th and my wife gets cranky if I stick her with the kids for full days on consecutive weekends. Probably the best place to start is for me to come over for an hour or two and we can go over what needs doing. I can also show you the basics of what you need to do to prep things for the install. We can talk about sheet metal vs. prefab pieces at that point. Sheet metal may be fine for the inner fenders and inner rockers, but you'll want to order proper rocker panels and floorboards. Not of what you're doing is particularly complex, although lining up the rockers is sort of a PITA. Go pick up a spring loaded center punch and a spot weld drill bit from Harbor Freight and you'll be able to get started. If you don't have one already, you'll need an angle grinder, some cutoff wheels, some sanding discs and a wire wheel as well. Harbor freight is fine for those as well, although I've had bad luck with their sanding discs. You may also want to think about a fire extinguisher for the garage, a good quality respirator and a face shield. Not sure of your metal working/fab experience, so sorry if those seem sort of obvious.

[Jesus_man]

In short hindsight, it appears I could've/should've gone with a HB, but did not know of that upgrade at the time.

That's what were here for. Everyone here has something to offer and you can ask nearly any question. Those pertaining to broncos will most likely be answered with experience. We like to do it once and do it right!

As for the locker in the rear, you can have 1 of 4 things. 1) Lincoln locked, as you mention. 2) Mini-spool, 3) full spool, 4) fubar'd locker. Only way to tell is pull the axle shafts and then the third off. Probably one of the few downfalls to the 9". There's no popping the cover for a quick inspection.

For street ability, a selectable locker is best. Am I preaching to the choir here? Maybe you know all this already??

As for other mods, give us a feel for what you want out of your bronco. Is it going to be 70% street, 30% trail, or any variation thereof? If trail only, are you thinking trailer queen or drive to the trails and drive home? On a scale of 10, 1 being a graded dirt road, what sort of trails are you looking to tackle? These answers can help us guide you in a more specific direction.

Anyway, welcome to ccb and I look forward to watching your rig transform.

J.D.

[Eck]

Probably the best place to start is for me to come over for an hour or two and we can go over what needs doing. I can also show you the basics of what you need to do to prep things for the install. We can talk about sheet metal vs. prefab pieces at that point. Sheet metal may be fine for the inner fenders and inner rockers, but you'll want to order proper rocker panels and floorboards. Not sure of your metal working/fab experience, so sorry if those seem sort of obvious.

I travel randomly for work so my schedule sorta changes week to week. I usually know by the weekend what my weekly schedule looks like. So, if you wanted to come by for an hour or so to take a look at what I am working with and come up with a game plan, I think that is a great idea. I know for sure that I will be around this coming Sunday, but if that doesn't work, maybe we can figure out an evening during the week that would work. This week is shot, but the following I may have a few available evenings.

As far as metal working experience, I have none. I bought a grinder a month ago to grind the knuckles down for my disc brake conversion and that is about it, so it would be very advantagious to do a bit of explaining to what I need to do to prep for the fab, what things I need to purchase and have on hand.

Thanks for your help and hopefully we can get together soon to strategize!

-Skip

[Eck]

In short hindsight, it appears I could've/should've gone with a HB, but did not know of that upgrade at the time.

That's what were here for. Everyone here has something to offer and you can ask nearly any question. Those pertaining to broncos will most likely be answered with experience. We like to do it once and do it right!

As for the locker in the rear, you can have 1 of 4 things. 1) Lincoln locked, as you mention. 2) Mini-spool, 3) full spool, 4) fubar'd locker. Only way to tell is pull the axle shafts and then the third off. Probably one of the few downfalls to the 9". There's no popping the cover for a quick inspection.

For street ability, a selectable locker is best. Am I preaching to the choir here? Maybe you know all this already??

As for other mods, give us a feel for what you want out of your bronco. Is it going to be 70% street, 30% trail, or any variation thereof? If trail only, are you thinking trailer queen or drive to the trails and drive home? On a scale of 10, 1 being a graded dirt road, what sort of trails are you looking to tackle? These answers can help us guide you in a more specific direction.

Anyway, welcome to ccb and I look forward to watching your rig transform.

J.D.

J.D. - thanks for the welcome, I am really excited to work on my Bronco but lack experience that is making me hesitate a bit. My next project is to rid the thing of all (or as much as I can get) rust and get it ready for paint and an interior finish. Justin has offered to help with some of the more difficult welds and sheet metal work and hopefully I will be able to pick it up and do the minor repairs and hole fill-ins on my own.

I posted my list of mods I am looking to do but I will try to explain my "big picture" a little further. I am looking for a rig that is probably 75% street and 25% trail ready. Trails I would most likely go on would be in the moderate range of difficulty but will probably push myself a little bit (not gonna be a rock crawler). I guess I am somewhere in the middle of extreme trail bronco and too nice to take off-road Bronco. I like keeping the engine and tranny somewhat original so that it still feels like an old Bronco but am looking for the modern amenities like PS, PB, and lockers that would allow for both street and off-road use. i hope that paints a better picture as to what I am trying to accomplish.

I would say after the body work and paint job, my next major project would be Power Steering conversion so that is my immediate game plan.

Thanks again for the suggestions and I look forward to many brainstorming forums!

-Skip

[Eck]

[quote="Justin"]If you're thinking about learning, I've been looking into taking a welding course somewhere locally and would love company. quote]

Keep me posted on what you find. I have looked at a couple online as well. It looks like they vary a little on skill level you start with and skill level you are desiring to get to. Also, what are the different types (MIG, TIG) and which do you use on SS or is better for auto application?

[Justin]

Sunday may work, let me touch base with the social director and get back to you. Otherwise most weekday evenings work fine for me. You're looking at a somewhat lengthy project-mine took a couple of months of intermittent work, but it's all doable by a novice and I was picking away at mine a few hours at a time. I had no idea at all what I was doing when I started and learned lots. Many people around here can help, and someone can generally answer any question you've got. I can definitely get you pointed in the right direction and am happy to lend both hands and tools. I'll add a set of body hammers to my suggested set of tools. Again, Harbor Freight, something like $20.

Re: the welding class, I'm looking at a course spanning several sessions. You can do just about anything that a Bronco would need with MIG, so I'm shooting for a basic MIG certificate. Mostly I want to be able to comfortably do stuff that has safety implications (cages, suspension). I'll do a little more digging and let you know what I find out. What part of Denver are you in?

[Jesus_man]

Mig is the best to learn for all around stuff. TIG is great, but fairly specialized.

[Eck]

Sunday may work, let me touch base with the social director and get back to you. Otherwise most weekday evenings work fine for me. You're looking at a somewhat lengthy project-mine took a couple of months of intermittent work, but it's all doable by a novice and I was picking away at mine a few hours at a time. I had no idea at all what I was doing when I started and learned lots. Many people around here can help, and someone can generally answer any question you've got. I can definitely get you pointed in the right direction and am happy to lend both hands and tools. I'll add a set of body hammers to my suggested set of tools. Again, Harbor Freight, something like $20.

Re: the welding class, I'm looking at a course spanning several sessions. You can do just about anything that a Bronco would need with MIG, so I'm shooting for a basic MIG certificate. Mostly I want to be able to comfortably do stuff that has safety implications (cages, suspension). I'll do a little more digging and let you know what I find out. What part of Denver are you in?

Perfect. I am in Park Hill-- closer to I-70 and Colorado'ish. If Sunday doesn't work, shoot me a couple of ideas for weeknights next week. As far as the time to do the repairs, my hope is to put in a couple of full weekend days (not necessarily consecutive) and then peck away at it a few random evenings after work. I also work from home quite often and some days have slow days to do it so once I get the tools and know-how together, I will have the motivation to get 'er done. I too eventually want to add a front cage to my Bronco so that would be useful to me as well.

[Justin]

You situation and goals are almost identical to mine. Eerie. Frankly, if you work from home I may be able to get together during the day as well, as my work life is really variable.

Your plan is pretty realistic, so it sounds doable. Expect that it'll take twice as long as you think, and that halfway through it you'll feel twice as dumb as you might now. On the up side, you'll get to buy twice as many tools as you thought you would, so there are perks. I'll be in touch.

[hockeydad4-22]

Sunday may work, let me touch base with the social director and get back to you. Otherwise most weekday evenings work fine for me. You're looking at a somewhat lengthy project-mine took a couple of months of intermittent work, but it's all doable by a novice and I was picking away at mine a few hours at a time. I had no idea at all what I was doing when I started and learned lots. Many people around here can help, and someone can generally answer any question you've got. I can definitely get you pointed in the right direction and am happy to lend both hands and tools. I'll add a set of body hammers to my suggested set of tools. Again, Harbor Freight, something like $20.

Re: the welding class, I'm looking at a course spanning several sessions. You can do just about anything that a Bronco would need with MIG, so I'm shooting for a basic MIG certificate. Mostly I want to be able to comfortably do stuff that has safety implications (cages, suspension). I'll do a little more digging and let you know what I find out. What part of Denver are you in?

Perfect. I am in Park Hill-- closer to I-70 and Colorado'ish. If Sunday doesn't work, shoot me a couple of ideas for weeknights next week. As far as the time to do the repairs, my hope is to put in a couple of full weekend days (not necessarily consecutive) and then peck away at it a few random evenings after work. I also work from home quite often and some days have slow days to do it so once I get the tools and know-how together, I will have the motivation to get 'er done. I too eventually want to add a front cage to my Bronco so that would be useful to me as well.

Based on this - I would recommend you spend a few hundred bucks and get yourself a decent welder. Sooner than later you are going to wish you had anyway. I would bet a poll of owners of this site would show you at least a third of us have at least one.

Think about it, you can beg, borrow or steal one every time you need it, knowing you have to get it back to the owner soon - or you can pay someone to do all your welding, never learning the skills to do repairs yourself and depending on their schedule all on top of paying them for their time.... or you can keep your eyes open for one on sale and start doing this stuff yourself. Besides it is kind of fun to say you built it all, say you did and know that 98.7 percent of all the other rigs you see on the road can not say that!

Few of us are expert welders, or even have any formal training but many of us are able to good welds, even if they look like hammered bird poop! (as mine tend to...)

[Justin]

I'll second that. I ended up saving a ton of money by buying this:

http://www.weldingmart.com/sp-140t-mig- ... recon.html

Combined with a $100 Miller welding mask (HF ones are fine, I just had some ebay credit), a HF welding cart and a tank from a club member (good deals can be had on craigslist as well) and I had a good MIG setup for less than $700. It was a major chunk of change to spend, but I got a great setup that I use more than I thought I would. I keep getting random fab ideas and just going down to the garage and making them happen since now I've got the tools to do it. A good example is the antenna mount I made about 1/4 of the way down this page:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1030&p=42578&hilit=CB+antenna#p42578

Lots of good used setups available on Craigslist as well.

Also, I was thinking about your rocker panels, and now may be a really good time to do something like this:

http://www.locobronco.com/index.php?top ... B%2Furl%5D

Riley's rockers are really cool, but you can do the same for about 1/3 the cost with some 2x6 or 2x4 steel tube. It may actually wind up costing less than the proper parts to put new rockers in. Great upgrade for wheeling if you're not dead set on keeping the factory body lines. I'm planning on doing mine at some point this winter. Hmmm, might be another good tech day.

[Eck]

I tend to agree with getting my own welding machine if I am actually going to take the time to learn (especially if I end up investing in a class). Not to mention, who knows if I will get the bug and end up with another project vehicle down the road... seems like it's a pretty easy sickness to catch. I just did a quick search on Craigslist... what do you guys think of this?

http://denver.craigslist.org/tld/3313595548.html

As for the rocker panels. I am not opposed to the idea you mentioned. If I were to do something like that, I would probably try to fab some sort of a semi-hidden nerf bar to attach that sticks out maybe a couple inches at most to offer a little added protection as well as a pseudo-step for the midgets!

[Justin]

Most of us are self-taught or learned from friends. It isn't that hard to get a basic weld down. Anything structural takes a little more expertise, but that's where education and classes come in. I wouldn't go with that welder. It doesn't have the power of a 140. I've got a 140 and have thought about getting the garage wired for 220v so that I can step up to a 180. The 125 maxes out at 1/4" steel if you do multiple passes, where the 140 will do 3/16 in a single pass. Multi-pass welding increases the risks of contamination, which can weaken the weld and 3/16 is a common thickness for things like bumpers and sliders.

2x6 tube for sliders will stick out 1.5"-2", which should do what you're looking for. See the pic in the second post:

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showth ... p?t=197798

[Eck]

Most of us are self-taught or learned from friends. It isn't that hard to get a basic weld down. Anything structural takes a little more expertise, but that's where education and classes come in. I wouldn't go with that welder. It doesn't have the power of a 140. I've got a 140 and have thought about getting the garage wired for 220v so that I can step up to a 180. The 125 maxes out at 1/4" steel if you do multiple passes, where the 140 will do 3/16 in a single pass. Multi-pass welding increases the risks of contamination, which can weaken the weld and 3/16 is a common thickness for things like bumpers and sliders.

2x6 tube for sliders will stick out 1.5"-2", which should do what you're looking for. See the pic in the second post:

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showth ... p?t=197798

Thanks for the welder advice. I think I am pretty much talked into getting one now. I know that it will take me twice as long as it probably should to do all of the welding I need to do and it is going to be a PITA to have to borrow gear for that long. I also know that it will be used for future builds or maybe once I have a sweet ride and I convince all of my friends to get Bronco projects too.

As for the skis, I really like the square skis in that thread above on the white rig. I also like how they tie into the fender flares. Here is a few "how to" pics http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showth ... p?t=112799

I think I particularly like that they stil maintain a little bit of the body line as they add a couple of inches instead of just folding sheet metal under the door panel. Plus they are functional in protecting on trails. Thanks for the brainstorming.

[Justin]

No worries. I suspect either setup is equally good. I like the having the additional metal to weld to with the rockers folded in, but both setups are proven and work well. Not sure which way I'll go when the time comes. You won't regret a welder purchase, and you can buy one, then run flux core wire till you get a gas bottle. On a 140, anything on the larger end of what the welder requires will mean you're running flux wire anyway. Take a look at some of the Hobart and Miller welders in addition to the Lincolns. Both are good, Hobart will tend to be less expensive. The largest 110v welder that either makes will be a good entry level welder. Avoid off brands or the HF ones. Harder to get parts for, and sometimes tougher to lay down a good bead with. PM me your email and I can send you some welding books.

[Jesus_man]

I have a Hobart Handler 125. You want one that can run on gas. Some are flux core wire only and you'll want to upgrade to gas someday. I like my welder. It's done a lot of what I have needed to do. But its nice to have friends who have bigger 220v machines to do the major stuff. There was lots of discussions on here about welders recently, but I think it got more into a brand name war than anything.

Either way, I think they are a worthy investment. So nice to be able to fab up your own stuff.

[ZOSO]

Also look at an Eastwood welder. It's a rebadged Lincoln without the cost. I have the 185 and it works great.

[Eck]

Ok-- Hobart 140 looks to be about $500 http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200306073


Eastwood 135 is $300 http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-110v ... utput.html
-- got great reviews
-- ZOSO-- did not see any 185's (the 175 was 220V)

Miller Welders are way too expensive for what I am looking to spend

Lincoln 140 is $620 http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200405530
-- This one seems to be spool capable -- Is this something that is commonly used or I will want?


Sounds like everyone has the opinion based off of brand or maybe what you use, but I would love any feedback before I make a decision to purchase one.

[Justin]

The Millers are nice but they're proud of them. Hobarts are good welders (made by Miller, I think). Not familiar with the Eastwoods, but I trust Zoso's judgement. The 135 looks like slightly lower spec than the Lincoln 140, but that's a good deal. A spool is used for welding aluminum, not something you're likely to need. A couple of guys in the club (me included) went with refurb Lincolns that have worked well so far. Mine didn't look like it had ever been used.

[Colorado75bronc]

I just recently bought a Hobart handler 210 MVP and love it, it can be run on 110 or 220, it is on northern tool for $849.99, I bought a floor model from Murdoch's discounted for $719, not sure about the Eastwood welders, I will only buy Lincoln, Miller, and Hobart myself

[Eck]

I just recently bought a Hobart handler 210 MVP and love it, it can be run on 110 or 220, it is on northern tool for $849.99, I bought a floor model from Murdoch's discounted for $719, not sure about the Eastwood welders, I will only buy Lincoln, Miller, and Hobart myself

Oh man-- this one looks sweet. The option for both seems to give me the flexibility to grow into the machine as my welding skills and desired projects develop. If I could find one locally for $719, I think I would pull the trigger too!

I am at a crossroads on whether I just invest now into something that will pretty much do WHATEVER I will ever need to do or do I start with a very nice starter model? What sorts of things will you use this welder for that the 140 models just can't really do very well?