First Time Bronco Owner - 1969 Bronco

[pgilbeau]

Joined the site a couple years back when I bought my 69 Bronco, unfortunately it has sat for a little over 2 years at this point. Looking to finally get started on this project, got lots of ideas but not sure where to start. The steering is terrible and it has a short somewhere. I feel as though I will probably strip it down and start from scratch. Thinking full widths and a 351W for starters.

[akaFrankCastle]

Well, you've taken the most important first step: saying hi. Lol

What's your current steering system consist of?

[Justin]

Welcome! What's the end goal? Will it be pretty and for running around town or a wheeler? I'm assuming the latter, given that you bought a built rig already. Start by going through each system go ensure reliability before you start modifying. Wheel bearings, brakes, steering etc. That way you've got a useful baseline to see what you do and don't like. Post up what it's currently got as well, as it'll help us spend your money, I mean guide you.

[pgilbeau]

I will do the best I can to answer

What's your current steering system consist of?

The front end has had some work done to it, there are FOX coil overs and some kind of set up I am not sure what to call. I think the steering box is stock, I don't really have any good pictures at the moment. You can see the front end and coil overs in the pic I do have, thinking I will just get rid of the current set up.

What's the end goal? Will it be pretty and for running around town or a wheeler?

I really was looking to do a combination of both, I want to be able to drive it to work if I want to and take it to Moab when I want. I am going to clean it up pretty well initially however I am not the type of person that will have a perfectly good rig sitting in the mall parking lot having never seen trails/off road. I bought the rig the way it was because it is pretty much rust free, it needs body work but not rust repair so I figured that may be easier. I have had other projects in the past but I intend for this project to be pretty in depth. Unfortunately I probably should have done more research because I am not real happy with a lot of what has been done to it already.

[mickphatmac]

That's a good looking soft top! Wonder where I've seen that before???....

Good looking rig man! Can't wait to see what you do to it ;)

[Digger]

Shoot us some pictures of the steering from the front side. When you say it is terrible, does that mean it's loose, bump steer, other, all of the above?

When was the last alignment? Do you have numbers?

[pgilbeau]

So I probably should have posted more info then I did originally. The current set up is some kind of four link I really haven't seen before, it has Fox coil overs. From what I can tell it is a 72 D44, it has disks and a Detroit locker. The rear end also has a Detroit locker but its the small bearing 9". It currently has a 302 with Holley Projection, a C4, and Dana 20. My plans include swapping to a 351W, a full width high pinion D44 with an ARB locker and Duff radius arms, a full width big bearing 9" for the rear with a Detroit, new cage, Mastercraft seats. Still undecided about a lot, not sure on trans and t-case but am leaning toward an Atlas. I want to be able to Crawl as well as drive on the highway. As for me I have built a couple Rangers and Explorers in the past but this will be a more in depth build. I probably need to learn to weld this time around.

Shoot us some pictures of the steering from the front side. When you say it is terrible, does that mean it's loose, bump steer, other, all of the above?

When was the last alignment? Do you have numbers?

I will take some pictures later today but I am already planning to swap the front end. In general I would just say its loose, not stable at all once you hit 40-45 mph. I don't know that I would call it death wobble but its got to be close. I have no idea on the alignment or specs. I really have no idea on the current set up which is why I think I am just going to start from scratch.

That's a good looking soft top! Wonder where I've seen that before???....

Good looking rig man! Can't wait to see what you do to it ;)

Thanks, its going to be a pretty big project. The top along with a lot of other stuff will be up for grabs once I start tearing things down.

[crawlercreations]

Welcome!

That front suspension actually looks to be a nice set-up if it is done properly. More adjustability than radius arms and, likely, better travel. Again, if it is done properly. I know it is similar to what a couple of others have done here just recently. I would sort out the steering issues before committing to scrapping the front suspension and starting fresh. It appears, from little I can see in the pic, that there is a big drop pitman arm but no drop on the trac bar. The drag link and trac bar should be as close to parallel to one another as possible to get the best/lowest amount of bump steer. I would also guess your caster if off. Caster is an easy one to adjust with that type of suspension. That helps tremendously with stability at speed.

[pgilbeau]

Thanks, I am definitely open to advice. I have done radius arms with coils on other vehicles in the past so I guess maybe I am more comfortable with it. I am going to start looking into this set up and see what I can figure out. I still want to go full width and high pinion regardless of radius arms or the current set up.

[Digger]

Radius arms with trac-bar is still one of the best balances between complexity and function for locating a front axle.

I would agree with CrawlerCreations that sorting out your current issues first would be beneficial. Even if you scrap the current setup, what you learn can be applied to the next iteration.

[Justin]

I'm just finishing up installing almost exactly the same suspension you've got already. What you have is a radius arm setup, but it will flex better than a Duff kit depending on how the front of the arm mounts. The Fox coilovers are a really nice thing to have. I agree with Crawler-make sure everything is in good shape and that the alignment is in spec before you tear it apart. My guess is that you've got some worn steering/suspension components or a bad alignment, and that fixing it will result in a big difference. If you can, post up some more detailed shots of the front end. It'll give us a better sense of what you're dealing with. I'd be most interested in how the coilovers are mounted, the radius arm attachment points, and a front shot showing the alignment of the drag link and trac bar. I can post comparison photos of my setup for anything that's odd.

[akaFrankCastle]

What part of Colorado Springs are you in? I'm by REI.

[pgilbeau]

What part of Colorado Springs are you in? I'm by REI.

Closet major intersection is Rangewood and Vickers

[pgilbeau]

Went out and took some pics, there is also probably a good 4-5 inches of play in the steering wheel. I definitely need to look at the whole set up.

[Digger]

I see a couple of things going on.

1) Your draglink is not parallel to the trackbar and not they same length either.
2) Your steering box is hanging really low and appears to be an angle that is nearly maxing out the rod end at the steer box at static height.
3) All the rod ends at the knuckles and pitman arm are secured with bolts. While not certain to have a problem, they are not as secure as tapered studs and can slip if not tight enough.

4) The axle side of the track bar appears to be attached to the nose of the radius arm. The radius arm bushings were not designed to handle lateral loads. They get pounded out pretty quick if used that way.

[crawlercreations]

Appears to be that odd ball 70s truck steering gearbox that has a mile long sector shaft. If it were mine I'd start with a 4x4x2 steering gear, longer drag link and a new lower trac bar mount. I'd make sure to get the drag link and trac bar as close as possible to parallel to each other and see how it drives then.

[Justin]

Jason, you're right, that's a '69-'79 F150 steering box conversion. As has been said, I'd start by ditching that and swapping to a stock power box or a 4x4x2 mounted on the outside of the frame rail. It will meaningfully improve the alignment of the drag link and trac bar. You've got a really unusual radius arm setup. I suspect it's custom, and I'd love to get a look at it in person the next time I go through there. It's wild, whatever it is, but I'm guessing it works fairly well.

The first thing I'd do is find the nearest spouse or 5 year old and have them turn the steering wheel back and forth with the truck off while you climb around under it looking for worn parts. Start by looking at the steering shaft in relation to pitman arm movement. If the shaft moves and the pitman arm doesn't then the box has play. Bolted heims can wallow out their holes, resulting in loose steering as well. Just see what's wiggling under load. It's likely a combination of several things. I might be down that way on the 3rd or 4th if you want help.

[pgilbeau]

I see a couple of things going on.

1) Your draglink is not parallel to the trackbar and not they same length either.

Agree with you on this, I also felt the trackbar looks to be pretty weak, totally different than the others

2) Your steering box is hanging really low and appears to be an angle that is nearly maxing out the rod end at the steer box at static height.

Steering box is shot, looking into a 4x4x2 as mentioned by crawlercreations

3) All the rod ends at the knuckles and pitman arm are secured with bolts. While not certain to have a problem, they are not as secure as tapered studs and can slip if not tight enough.

Didn't catch that initially but it definitly makes me wonder about the quality of work done by the PO

4) The axle side of the track bar appears to be attached to the nose of the radius arm. The radius arm bushings were not designed to handle lateral loads. They get pounded out pretty quick if used that way.

It is attached to the front of the radius arm, not a good design at all.

I had already noticed some of this and that was part of why I wanted to pull everything out and start over. I am about to have a month off so I am hoping to start tearing this down and find a donor for axles. One thing I would like to do is figure out how to keep the coil overs with a new front end set up. Thanks for the input.

@ Digger: I really like your rig, great work

[Justin]

Take a look at Trei's build. He made a set of really nice radius arms that will flex better than Duff and cost about half as much. You could easily reuse your existing brackets and upper coilover mounts. I used a heavily modified version of these brackets for mine: http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Rad ... _1465.html. I didn't build my arms, but they're the same basic design.

[Jesus_man]

I could be wrong, but I believe this style of suspension is a Y-link?? It is very similar to a radius arm, but much better options for adjustment. I've done something similar to mine but I don't have the nice coilovers you have. I wouldn't ditch it, it's great for off-road. However that means it may not have the best road manners (body lean). It'd be easy to weld on replacement brackets to the FW axles.

As others have said, the track bar and steering need some work tho and a good time to do that is when you swap out to a full width HPD44. Since you're considering swapping steering boxes, look at having the new one ported for ram assist. You'll want it later as you begin to test the limits of your rig.

If it were me, I'd getting it driving nicely before I messed with the drivetrain. Enjoy it this coming summer, then plan the heart transplant for next winter. I LOVE my 351EFI/ZF5/Atlas combo! And there are options for an automatic if you prefer.

There is a lot of good work that went into that rig, but it appears to be done by someone who wasn't too familiar with broncos.

As Justin said, we're here to help you spend your money...but we'll try to steer you to do so wisely and make it go further!

[hockeydad4-22]

we're here to help you spend your money...but we'll try to steer you to do so wisely and make it go further!

Now JD, that's not true. Not true at all - if it were wise - that money would not be put into an old bronco, but we will help you spend on fun stuff! This you can count on.

Actually I am going to be paying very close attention to your build. Justin, Trei, JD and a couple others on this site have already done much of the research and legwork for us to make our builds much easier without the trial and error that I would go through otherwise.

[Jesus_man]

touché Greg touché

[pgilbeau]

Thanks for all the feedback, hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving.

Jason, you're right, that's a '69-'79 F150 steering box conversion. As has been said, I'd start by ditching that and swapping to a stock power box or a 4x4x2 mounted on the outside of the frame rail. It will meaningfully improve the alignment of the drag link and trac bar. You've got a really unusual radius arm setup. I suspect it's custom, and I'd love to get a look at it in person the next time I go through there. It's wild, whatever it is, but I'm guessing it works fairly well.

The first thing I'd do is find the nearest spouse or 5 year old and have them turn the steering wheel back and forth with the truck off while you climb around under it looking for worn parts. Start by looking at the steering shaft in relation to pitman arm movement. If the shaft moves and the pitman arm doesn't then the box has play. Bolted heims can wallow out their holes, resulting in loose steering as well. Just see what's wiggling under load. It's likely a combination of several things. I might be down that way on the 3rd or 4th if you want help.

As much as I want to get moving on this its going to have to be planning for the next couple weeks, my schedule is packed until the 19th. After that I will have about a month before I am busy again. I may just throw the Bronco on my trailer and take it to the December breakfast.

Can someone point me to Trei's build thread? I wanted to check it out.

[pgilbeau]

Got some free time so I am going to start working to get this back on the road. My number one priority is to fix the steering, looking to grab a 4x4x2 box from BC Broncos and probably the reinforcement kit they offer. BC Broncos seemed to be the only ones that specifically list their steering box as a 4x4x2. Seems like getting the old box out may be a little difficult, the conversion bracket is partially welded to the frame. I also need to get a stock pitman arm and figure out what I am going to do for a drag link. Next priority is to get the gauges working, seems none of them currently work. Other things I want to get accomplished in the near future are to get the soft top back on and get the doors lined up right. Also going to start looking for a 351w and full widths.

[Gunnibronco]

West Coast Broncos has 4x4x2 stuff & a great tech section & DIY 4x4x2.

http://www.wcb4x4.com/

Check with Don Allison (dalli on CCB) he has a yard full of stuff in CS. He sold me a stock arm at a very reasonable price.

[pgilbeau]

Thanks, forgot about West Coast Broncos, I like what they have to offer better and the box is about $20 less.

[pgilbeau]

Ordered my 4x4x2 box and stuff, still need to figure out what to do for a drag link.

[pgilbeau]

4x4x2 box and stuff came in today, hopefully have some time this coming weekend to start the process of changing everything out.

[pgilbeau]

Looking at swapping over to the Explorer 5.0 belt set up and wondering if anyone uses the bracket with the A/C compressor and P/S pump. I plan to keep my AGR power steering pump and don't need the A/C bracket. Found a whole set minus the fan and clutch but not sure if I should grab it.

[Kinder]

Most do and don't mount the AC compressor.