Crawlercreations 60-9 front axle and $$$$$$ build

[Jesus_man]

How would that compare to a D60 you might find under a superduty or something?

[crawlercreations]

How would that compare to a D60 you might find under a superduty or something?

Best I can find is 480 and up for a standard Dana 60, not the super 60 in the newer Fords. That is without steering and, especially, without the ram and ram mount. The ram alone is about 40 pounds. I never weighed the ram mount so I'm not sure how much that added.

[Jesus_man]

Nice, so you've got the strength while saving yourself some weight. What pinion yoke size are you running?

[crawlercreations]

Nice, so you've got the strength while saving yourself some weight. What pinion yoke size are you running?

The Hi9 claims to be a bit stronger than the dana 60 gears so I should be even stronger while having about 2" better ground clearance under the axle. I am running a forged 1350 yoke. I got all the upgrades Hi9 offers short of the mega Hi9 and the polished gears because I didn't want to run 5.43 gears(only ratio that comes with the mega) and I didn't really see the advantage of the polished gears. So I have dual load bolts, forged 1350 yoke and solid pinion spacer.

[Gunnibronco]

Thanks for posting this up. I've thought about different hybrid axles for a while now. I have a couple questions.

First, a set of Rock Assault 9" housings are available for sale in Reno, and I thought about buying them. I have a set of 96ish Ford ball joint 60 outers, but they are still in storage in CO, so I can't check measurements. The 9" housings are 3.5" tubes, and from what I read these BJ Ford 60 tubes are just over 3". Is this correct? I'd hate to buy a 3.5" housing and find out my stuff wouldn't fit it.

Also, did you use a jig or something else to prevent the housing from warping during welding?

Thanks

[crawlercreations]

Thanks for posting this up. I've thought about different hybrid axles for a while now. I have a couple questions.

First, a set of Rock Assault 9" housings are available for sale in Reno, and I thought about buying them. I have a set of 96ish Ford ball joint 60 outers, but they are still in storage in CO, so I can't check measurements. The 9" housings are 3.5" tubes, and from what I read these BJ Ford 60 tubes are just over 3". Is this correct? I'd hate to buy a 3.5" housing and find out my stuff wouldn't fit it.

Also, did you use a jig or something else to prevent the housing from warping during welding?

Thanks

I'm not sure what the stock ball joint tubes are sized at. The Cs I bought were already at 3.5" and, supposedly, came from a '96-'97 ford Dana 60. The 3.5" they are were not bored that way, just tubes removed so they are definitely from stock 3.5" tubes. The knuckles were from the same axle and I can confirm they are definitely '96-'97 Ford knuckles based on their brake brackets and spindle pattern. Based on all of this I'd say the '96-'97 ford ball joint stuff is 3.5" tubes. Having not been the one to remove it all from the axle myself I can't say for sure.

I did not use a jig for the housing when I welded the ram mount on. Just moved around side to side and center, slowly, to prevent it from warping. I stuck a 2" tube through it and checked it at the ends after welding. I could not find and signs of warpage. These housings are pretty ridiculously strong.

[Gunnibronco]

Thanks for the info. Glad to hear the housing didn't warp. Gives me some confidence to do it myself someday, instead of having it done.

I cut up a bent 96? Ford D60 for my parts. I just wish I could be sure they were 3.5". I trust you are right, but the project wouldn't be for a while. Running the risk to save a little isn't worth it, right now.

[Jesus_man]

I contemplated a Jana 54, and I may still do that, but I would love to get in Hi9 for the rear in a new housing!

If I were building a buggy, I think I'd go with a portal setup of some sort based on the Ford 9". But what you just built would be second in line if portals didn't make sense.

[crawlercreations]

I contemplated a Jana 54, and I may still do that, but I would love to get in Hi9 for the rear in a new housing!

If I were building a buggy, I think I'd go with a portal setup of some sort based on the Ford 9". But what you just built would be second in line if portals didn't make sense.

I also considered a Jana 54 or k4 in my bronco as well. I have never hurt the dana 44 ring and pinion though. If I was doing the Jana stuff I would upgrade to 35 spline axle shafts then but, even in that case, the u joint is a 1310 size axle u joint at max or RCVs where the dana 60 stuff is a 1480 axle u joint or even bigger(than what can fit in a dana 44 C) RCVs.

The problem I've been reading about with Hi9s in the rear is they are breaking ring and pinions in the rears due to the fact they are running on the coast side of the gear then. Hi9 is having Richmond build their gears in reverse rotation for the high pinion part but that makes the rear run on the coast side only then. Even with load bolts people are breaking the rears. Fronts don't have the same problem being that they are running on the drive side still.

Portals would be awesome! Buggy only really due to the amount of lift you would need in a bronco to clear them with any uptravel but the clearance is amazing.

[crawlercreations]

Thanks for the info. Glad to hear the housing didn't warp. Gives me some confidence to do it myself someday, instead of having it done.

I cut up a bent 96? Ford D60 for my parts. I just wish I could be sure they were 3.5". I trust you are right, but the project wouldn't be for a while. Running the risk to save a little isn't worth it, right now.

I wish I could confirm. I'll reach out to the guy I got the Cs and knuckles from and see if he knows. Trail gear makes ball joint Cs for stock knuckles that fit 3.5" housings but they're not terribly cheap.

[crawlercreations]

I am planning to install this starting on the 15th this month! It should be fairly smooth and quick.

[Gunnibronco]

I contemplated a Jana 54, and I may still do that, but I would love to get in Hi9 for the rear in a new housing!

If I were building a buggy, I think I'd go with a portal setup of some sort based on the Ford 9". But what you just built would be second in line if portals didn't make sense.

I also considered a Jana 54 or k4 in my bronco as well. I have never hurt the dana 44 ring and pinion though. If I was doing the Jana stuff I would upgrade to 35 spline axle shafts then but, even in that case, the u joint is a 1310 size axle u joint at max or RCVs where the dana 60 stuff is a 1480 axle u joint or even bigger(than what can fit in a dana 44 C) RCVs.

Ok, now that we're talking D44s/Jana54s/654s, I saw that Ox offers a 35 spline locker for a D44. Would it make sense to put the 60 knuckles/brakes/axles in a D44 with 35 spline Ox? Am I right the 60 axles would even fit? I have a 76 HPD44 housing, and all the 60 stuff and was planning a Jana54 with the D60 axles, knuckles, brakes (654). But read the 50 pinion has the same diameter as the 44. Not sure the work for the Jana conversion would be worth it at that point, especially with the 35 spline Ox.

I'm still thinking of going to 37s next, but now that I'm in NV, there seems to be some serious wheeling & lots of guys running bigger than 37s. That's why I was starting to think about the 609, instead of the 654.

Thoughts?

[crawlercreations]

I contemplated a Jana 54, and I may still do that, but I would love to get in Hi9 for the rear in a new housing!

If I were building a buggy, I think I'd go with a portal setup of some sort based on the Ford 9". But what you just built would be second in line if portals didn't make sense.

I also considered a Jana 54 or k4 in my bronco as well. I have never hurt the dana 44 ring and pinion though. If I was doing the Jana stuff I would upgrade to 35 spline axle shafts then but, even in that case, the u joint is a 1310 size axle u joint at max or RCVs where the dana 60 stuff is a 1480 axle u joint or even bigger(than what can fit in a dana 44 C) RCVs.

Ok, now that we're talking D44s/Jana54s/654s, I saw that Ox offers a 35 spline locker for a D44. Would it make sense to put the 60 knuckles/brakes/axles in a D44 with 35 spline Ox? Am I right the 60 axles would even fit? I have a 76 HPD44 housing, and all the 60 stuff and was planning a Jana54 with the D60 axles, knuckles, brakes (654). But read the 50 pinion has the same diameter as the 44. Not sure the work for the Jana conversion would be worth it at that point, especially with the 35 spline Ox.

I'm still thinking of going to 37s next, but now that I'm in NV, there seems to be some serious wheeling & lots of guys running bigger than 37s. That's why I was starting to think about the 609, instead of the 654.

Thoughts?

No chance at Dana 60 axles fitting the Dana 44 knuckles or Cs. 1310 u joints barely clear Dana 44 stuff where the Dana 60 runs 1480 u joints in the axles. If you're talking putting Dana 60 Cs and out on the Dana 44 housing you might be on to something but as you comment, not sure the Dana 50 gears would be enough. Also, from what I remember about going with 35 spline Dana 44 carrier, the carrier bearings get quite small and unreliable. That load has killed the bearings and, subsequently, the gears. By the time you add up the Jana costs, the 35 spline cost and the work involved only to end up with undersize carrier bearings you'd be money ahead to build it once with the 60-9. All of this is, of course, my opinion. I know a guy running 42s on a high pinion Dana 44 with rcvs in south Dakota on some hard trails with no breakage. He's samurai based but running a 4.3 vortec and 4 seats so still not terribly light weight.

If you're even considering you might run bigger than 37s it would be worth it, in my opinion, to build a 60-9. Better ground clearance than a Dana 44 and much stronger. I'm planning to go to 40" stickies, eventually, and feel that my 60-9 will be fine with that.

[Gunnibronco]

Thanks,

I knew the 60 axles wouldn't fit through the 44 knuckles.

The 35 spline Ox would fit without the Jana kit, its for a 44. But I'm assuming the bearing issue is a killer. Also, if 50 gears won't hold up to the 60 axles then 44 gears certainly won't. There is one point on a 50 pinion that is the same diameter as a 44 pinion, I just can't remember the details, it's been too long since I was doing the reading. There is a 35 spline ARB D50 locker that can be used to build a Jana 654.

http://www.ox-usa.com/dana-44/445-dana-44.html

Seems to me, I should just forget the 654 or an Ox locked 44 with 60 outers/axles. And save the money and effort for a 60-9. I didn't realize the 9 was better clearance than a 44, so that would be better even if I stick with 37s.

What are your thoughts on the 'other' HP 9", that runs reverse cut 8.8 gears (I forget the name right now)? Would it be enough? I know it's cheaper than a True Hi-9.

edit: it looks like I was thinking of the Currie HP 9", but they no longer make the case.

Thanks

[crawlercreations]

Thanks,

I knew the 60 axles wouldn't fit through the 44 knuckles.

The 35 spline Ox would fit without the Jana kit, its for a 44. But I'm assuming the bearing issue is a killer. Also, if 50 gears won't hold up to the 60 axles then 44 gears certainly won't. There is one point on a 50 pinion that is the same diameter as a 44 pinion, I just can't remember the details, it's been too long since I was doing the reading. There is a 35 spline ARB D50 locker that can be used to build a Jana 654.

http://www.ox-usa.com/dana-44/445-dana-44.html

Seems to me, I should just forget the 654 or an Ox locked 44 with 60 outers/axles. And save the money and effort for a 60-9. I didn't realize the 9 was better clearance than a 44, so that would be better even if I stick with 37s.

What are your thoughts on the 'other' HP 9", that runs reverse cut 8.8 gears (I forget the name right now)? Would it be enough? I know it's cheaper than a True Hi-9.

edit: it looks like I was thinking of the Currie HP 9", but they no longer make the case.

Thanks

It was the Currie. Without the 3rd bearing on the pinion that high pinion 9" was really for small tires and low power. Currie never even recommended it for 35s or bigger. Really just meant to give you better driveshaft angles it seems.

I'm not certain if the stock 9" housing has better ground clearance than a Dana 44 but I know the spider 9 housings do. The spider 9 appears to have the best ground clearance of any of the aftermarket 9"housings. In measuring my spider 9 against my dana 44 it has about 3/4" more ground clearance at their lowest points. Doesn't sound like much but that's almost like going from 37s to 39s.

[Gunnibronco]

It was the Currie. Without the 3rd bearing on the pinion that high pinion 9" was really for small tires and low power. Currie never even recommended it for 35s or bigger. Really just meant to give you better driveshaft angles it seems.

Great info. I won't even look for a used one. There had been one for sale in Salida in the last year or so, before I left Gunnison. I sort of wished I had bought it, until now.

[Jesus_man]

Ahh, I had forgotten about the Hi-9 in a rear application does run on the weaker side of the gears. Hmm, not a option then at this point. Being that the housing is symmetrical, surely someone could mirror a design to the other side to correct this? Or am I not thinking correctly?

Thinking out loud, a portal would make the most sense in the rear as that is where I get hung up 99% of the time being a non-steer axle. But I wonder how close you could get the gearing to a non-portal axle... I do think suspension-wise, it wouldn't be too hard in the rear, especially if you 4-linked or at least ran longer leaf springs.

With 35's and Chromo's I have not had any D44 issues in a while (aside from the chronic oil leak). But I too want to upsize the tires to at least 37's. If I start breaking things at that point, I will have to see what makes the most sense. Perhaps trussing this HP44, a full locker and running RCV's would be good enough.

[crawlercreations]

Picked up a "little" something to help install the axle with the proper clearances for where I'll end up.

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[Strike2]

I would have expected nothing less so will you have a set of street tires or is it trailer only?

[crawlercreations]

I would have expected nothing less so will you have a set of street tires or is it trailer only?

I am not fully committed to the stickies. If I decide to run stickies I will have a set of street-ish(think MT/Rs) tires that I can cruise around on and also drive up to the easy(spring creek and the like) trails on and use there. Then run the stickies for Carnage BV, Penrose and Moab(and similar). Just rolling this thing around my shop feels like it is losing tread so I would definitely not run stickies on the street if I can help it! I only bought the 1 cause I found it for $60 so I will only need 3 more to run the sticky Trepadors. For now it allows me to check clearances during install and, if I don't run them, it will make a spare or good wall decoration.

[Jesus_man]

I've never seen a new Trep in person, but wow, that is some tread!!! So now to find 3 more...

[crawlercreations]

This happened today. I really liked the idea of stickies but I just know I'll be driving my Bronco on the street still and I can't handle the idea of 1000 miles out of a set of (expensive) tires. These should give me a nice balance of street and crawling. Plus side is they're actually a bit bigger than the trepador! Uninflated they're a solid 1.5 inch bigger. Inflated I'd expect 2 inches or so. So, not sticky, but bigger and dual purpose. Should be good!

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[Jesus_man]

That'll make a huge difference! So the trep is a spare now?

[crawlercreations]

That'll make a huge difference! So the trep is a spare now?

The trep is going to my buddy in Moab. He is building a full tube buggy so it'll suit his needs better than mine. I got 5 of the MTRs so the worst one will be my spare. I won't be carrying it with me but it'll be at the tow truck or at home.

[crawlercreations]

This happened yesterday...

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On to install now!

[Kinder]

Blank slates are the best.

[crawlercreations]

Blank slates are the best.

Agreed.

I also mounted up my new to me tires. They're almost 2 inches bigger than the trepador! Both the MTRs and trepador are 40x13.50x17 but the MTR is so much bigger it's silly.

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[Rox Crusher]

those rocks don’t stand a chance

[crawlercreations]

Things are progressing nicely! Still a fair amount of work to do but cycling the suspension feels like a big step! My calculator numbers came out pretty nice, let's just hope it translates well to the real world!

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[Jesus_man]

How long are your links and can you send me a picture of the frame mount? Looks very tucked up in there!!