Full width D44 & 9" Bloody Knuckle axle swap

[Gunnibronco]

I put this up at Classicbroncos.com, but thought I'd share this with you guys too, as my first real post.

This weekend, I spent some time prepping & painting my "new" axles. They are a f/w set from a 79 Bronco. Used a Crud Thug, wire wheel tool to clean the axles, best I could. Then I wiped them down with a course Scotch Brite & lacquer thinner & then a clean towel. I used "Chassis Saver"- satin black paint. This was recommended by our paint supplier, not cheap, about the same price as POR-15. I have not used POR products, so I can't compare. But I'm happy with the initial finish, although I'm not building anything of a show truck. I just couldn't bring myself to put dirty, rusty, old axles under my dirty, rusty, old truck. Really, nothing new here.

The part that may be of interest is the spray gun I used. First off, I am not a painter. I've been learning body work for 3 years, so I've done a little painting & some priming, but the sheet metal work is my job. I used a new primer gun, the 3M Accuspray:
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Automotive-.../dp/B003TODXUI
Since the Chassis Saver product is thick, it called for the same tip size as this primer gun & my painter thought it would work good. He says it is the best primer gun he's used, but at first he was skeptical. He has specifically mentioned the lack of overspray. After using the gun, I was impressed. I've painted a homemade trailer & my friend's "new" 79 Cherokee frame, using traditional HVLP guns. Spraying frames, trailers, axles all involve lots of upside down & odd angle painting. With this gun, I felt like most/all of my paint was hitting my target. With the old guns, I could see much of my paint spraying past my target. I did have to hold the gun closer to the axles to get the right finish. Again, I don't paint for a living, and I might have been able to tweek the gun to get a different pattern. In the end, it only took 1/2 of a quart to put 2 full coats on my stuff.

I also used the disposable plastic cups shown below the gun, listed with "Items frequently purchased together". These cups allow you to paint at all angles, even upside down, without spilling your expensive paint. Especially important when you are not a "pro" painter with lots of experience.

The gun itself is not terribly expensive at about $110.00. The cups are expensive, especially if you don't need 50, but I don't think a traditional metal cup will mate to the spay gun. I think the cups are a generic design, and maybe they can be purchased in smaller quantities from other vendors. I'm not 100% sure, I'll have to ask the painter if that is correct.

Yes, I did paint my calipers, maybe that was a mistake. I had painted my old calipers with regular black paint (not hi temp) & it held up. Now that I've applied this & realize its a bit thicker, somewhat like bed liner, I'm afraid it may burn/melt when it gets hot. We'll see.

Chad

painted f-w axles 005.jpg

[rtreads]

They look great!

[Entourage]

Nice work! I am glad you posted it on CCB in case members did not see it on cb.com. I wish I had disposable cups while doing auto body - anything to make clean up easier :)

[Gunnibronco]

Thanks, I'm glad to have found a "local" forum. Since I'm in Gunnison, my resources & access to Bronco guys is limited, to say the least. I'll be keeping an eye on the Colorado events & hope to catch up with some of you sometime soon.

I hate to say it but they look too nice to go under my old beater (she's a runner, not a looker). But, I'm sure they won't look too nice for too long, nothing stays clean in Gunnison.

Hopefully I'll be doing the install soon & I'll be sure to post up when I do. Now to find a couple small pieces of DOM, so I can temp in a draglink & track bar. After I'm sure the geometry is correct, I'll build a real DOM steering linkage w/C***y 1-ton TREs & draglink ends.

Chad

[Gunnibronco]

If possible can this thread be renamed? "Full width D44 & 9" Bloody Knuckle axle swap?"

Since I'm about to swap these axles under my 74 Bronco, and add Bloody Knuckle radius arms, I thought I'd just start adding here as I go. I don't think I need a new thread each time I accomplish something.

These axles came from a 79 Bronco, 400 V8, Auto. 3.50, open diffs. I bought the whole truck cheap, and wanted to keep the 400 & C6, but it just didn't make sense. So I pulled the axles & let the rest go. I wish I had pulled the steering box, but I didn't know about the 4x4x2 conversion then. I checked for intermittent wipers, but it didn't have them.

I don't take many pictures, most of the work takes place in between jobs in our body shop. So it just gets done as time & space allows. I'll do my best to take more pics during the big swap. I hope to do it this weekend. Most of what I've done to this point is regular maintenance, bearing swaps, brakes, etc.

I won't be regearing the axles right now. I'm very up in the air what gear ratio I want. I'm toying with many future upgrades & want to try driving at a much lower highway RPM (I've got 4.10's now). Ideally, I'll get my Explorer 5.0 swapped in & 35's installed before regearing. If the new motor can drive my truck on 35's w/3.50s @ 65, it will be like running with an O/D w/5.13s, about 2200 RPM. I doubt that the motor will have much giddiyup at those RPMs & my altitude. I don't want to regear now, and then again if I choose to go with a 4R70W. I'm running a NP435, stock D20 tcase now. Planning on an Atlas replacement, so I can make up for 3.50s or 3.73s with 4 low.

The Ford 9" rear, was "done" before it was painted. I chopped off the spring & shock mounts with a cutoff wheel & ground them flat. I replaced the axle bearings, seals, completely new drum brakes. I installed a new pinion seal, the old one was leaking badly. But I didn't touch the carrier bearings, trying to save money till I regear. I'm going to bend up new hard brake lines after the new spring & shock perches are installed. I'm going to move the shocks to the front of my axle, as Jim Cole (Bloody Knuckle/Cage) recommended.

In the last couple weeks I've assembled the D44's with new oil seals, wheel/hub/spindle bearings, T-bird calipers, BC Bronco's S.S. hoses for T-bird calipers, Moog balljoints, Raybestos slotted & drilled rotors & Raybestos (Carquest "Blue" series) brake pads. I made new set of hard lines. We've got a cool double/bubble flaring tool.

I've also installed good quality ujoints in the axles (Carquest). I think I'll upgrade to RJM axles before I drop $200.00 for a ujoint. I have an extra set of stock 79 axle shafts, so I've got some time to make that decision.

Here a couple pics.

[akaFrankCastle]

If possible can this thread be renamed? "Full width D44 & 9" Bloody Knuckle axle swap?"

But of course.

Axles are looking great. Also planning to rip mine out, completely rebuild, paint, and reinstall.

[Gunnibronco]

Thanks. I'll have more pics & progress soon.

Chad

[Jesus_man]

Nice work on your swap! Mine will be lucky to get paint where I ground to bare metal! But I am not swapping axles either, just suspension parts. Anyway, really nice work!

J.D.

[Entourage]

Those arms are so dang cool! I really like that design. . . . Someday, I will have extended arms.

[Gunnibronco]

I was not sure I could make the 78/79 front axle work without major work (retubing & resetting c-bushings). I had kinda abandoned the idea of using the 79 front axle, till our Snap-On dealer mentioned the extended arms. He had a friend that used the arms on a f/w swap with 78/79 axles. Then I did some reading & saw that many folks had done this.

Jim Cole is a very helpful guy. I discussed, via email, the direction my build was headed, and he gave me tons of advice. Although his email replies were slow & sometimes needed a follow up reminder. Even once I told him I was ready to buy, he wasn't quick to respond. I'll probably buy new coils & leafs from him once I'm sure of the lift height I want. Keep it at 3.5" or go to 4.5"? Again waiting till I install these axles & get 35's to decide.

Chad

[Jesus_man]

Are you thinking about a body lift? If so, I would say stay with the 3.5" and do a 1-2" BL. If not, I think you'll have to go to 4.5" SL or plan on trimming a LOT! Especially if you are moving that axle forward some.

Body lifts sometimes get a bad rap, but they are good in moderation. They allow you to clear larger tires while keeping the drivetrain, thus center of gravity, lower than the same lift all in suspension. And a lot of the popular tranny/t-case swaps will require some sort of BL.

I have a 3.5" SL and a 2" BL and it's a great combo.

J.D.

[Gunnibronco]

I haven't ruled anything in or out. My truck's body is rough, and I do body work, so cutting is not a problem. My goal would be no additional lift. I'll cut as much as needed to accomplish that. I figure I'll add the Silverback flares & cut as much as possible. I'll go out on a limb & say that with my stiff suspension, big flares & full width axles, I could run 35's. Add newer flexible coils & springs, and I don't know. I also will cut the hood up (further, already have a bubble) to clear EFI.

Body lift pros: center of gravity, tire clearance, EFI & auto tranny clearance. I've already cut a big hole to clear a NP435. My body mounts are SHOT and even new poly mounts would help alot.

???Is it possible to install a 4R70W without a bodylift? I've read conflicting opinions, in my limited readings.
I've been thinking that even if I don't run an O/D, but want an auto, the 4R70W (with O/D locked out) is still the best transmission choice. Plus, if I built a motor capable of pulling @ 65mph in O/D (347?, 351, 408), I could just turn O/D back on.

Suspension lift pros: fix possible interference issues with HP diff & oil pan, get more performance from extended radius arms.

Hopefully delaying decisions for as long as possible will help me see/think through these issues better.

Chad

edit: clarify suspension lift pros.

[Colorado75bronc]

i've got 79 fullwidths under mine, 5.5" lift, 2" bl, N.P. 435, and 35's under it, check out my members rigs thread, its titled colorado springs eb here, i don't have extended arms yet, and my coils aren't bowed, i have crappy caster :P but thats because of the stock arms and no drop brackets, i didn't see the point in doing drop brackets as im getting extended arms soon, which i strongly recommend you don't just install the coils the way they are, either cut the upper buckets off, and move them out to the fw spacing, or like i did, relocate just the lower coil cups inward, i can post some pics of my setup if you'd like

[Gunnibronco]

I'd love to see how you moved you spring bucket in. I was "told" by many over at CB.com that I did not need to move the buckets inward. Why should I move them in? It doesn't seem too hard, but I haven't given it that much thought. I saw one set up on CB.com that didn't look too hard to duplicate.

I don't have thoughts of moving the axle forward. Seems like tons of work, but I haven't really read any build threads. I want to do this over a weekend. I can park my truck for a weekend +/- at our shop for a project. Any longer, and it's in the way of business. So I have to keep my projects manageable. I can't imagine trying to work in my garage after having the "comforts" of a bodyshop.

I'll check out your thread.

Chad

[Gunnibronco]

Colorado75bronc,

I just read your thread and had a couple questions.

Do you have any clearance issues between your diff & oil pan? Do you expect that to change with a more flexible coil spring? Have you taken your front springs out & flexed it? I guess extended radius arms may change that too.

Do you have pics of your front bump stops? Did you move them to the frame?

I like your rig, mine was rolled by a PO too, but they "fixed" it. Not one body line is straight. I've spent 15 years slowly adjusting things to make doors & gates & hoods open & seal. Not to mention attacking all the rattles. Oh well, I don't feel bad about cutting it up or driving it hard. I've got an 06 300C AWD w/ghost flames & a bone stock 83 911 Convertible w/55,000 miles if I want to drive a car that looks good.

Chad

[Colorado75bronc]

ok, ya i'll try to get some pics up tomorrow night, i just think it looks very hacked running them with out moving the buckets, and it puts alot of stress on the lower coil retainers and upper retainers at all times, as where when they're installed properly they can almost sit in there without the retainers, i know they're under stress when driving and wheeling, but considering the retainers are just made out of like 1/8" steel, i don't think its a good idea, like i said i'll get some pics tomorrow

[Colorado75bronc]

here's some pics of how i moved my lower coil cups inward and how little coil bow i have, what bow there is is caused by the lack of caster causing the coil to have a slight forward bow, i made the brackets out of 3/8's plate, they're an L-bracket with a small chunk of 3/8's on top to conform to the goofy shape of the bottom of the coil cup, the cup is bolted to the plate with grade 8 bolts that go all the way through, then i bolted the plate to the top of the radius arm and on the other side of the "L" i notched it to fit the axle tube, and put two healthy beads down that if need be can be removed easily enough, but they're burned hot and penetrate deep and aren't going anywhere without some grinding, all this ends up giving me about 1" of lift, hence the reason im running 4.5" coils and 5.5" rear leafs, its very solid, i've wheeled on it a bunch already and have been daily driving it like this for a year and a half, if i would have been able to put it down for an extended period i would have moved the upper coil buckets out and built a crossover brace/shocktower to support them, but i did the swap and axle rebuild in a day on a weekend and had to have it going the next day for work, and i did my rear axle in about 5 hours including setting up the third member, its pretty hard to build an awesome trail rig when its your daily driver, and all you have, and you only can do it on sundays

[Colorado75bronc]

heres the rest

[cmcdowell]

I've been scouring the internet trying to find a source to get my own set of bloody knuckle radius arms. May sound dumb, but where can I order a set? I've checked bloodyknucklegarage.com and still nothing. Any help would be awesome!

Chad M.

[Jesus_man]

email Jim @
jim"at"bloodyknucklegarage.com

J.D.

[Gunnibronco]

JD beat me to it.

At least 3 Chad's on one board?

Thanks for the pics. I sat & stared at my axles last night, thinking doesn't count as work does it. Trying to figure a way to relocate the springs & mount the track bar. I think I'll do a little more measuring today. Removing drop trackbar bracket, raised track bar mount, swapping back to stock pitman, TRO swap, draglink on top/bottom of pitman arm - all ways to adjust steering geometry. Trying to guess which one is right for me is driving me a little crazy. Need to stop thinking and start building.

Chad A.

[Jesus_man]

Gunni - Are you thinking about ram assist? Something else to factor in. I think I have shown you my track bar riser bracket plus ram mount??

J.D.

[Gunnibronco]

Ram assist has briefly crossed my mind. I found your pictures, and will keep it in mind.

After staring blankly at my front axle some more, I've decided. Just like my lift kit & gears, I'm going to wait to get everything together before making a decision. I'll put it together with the coil springs bowed out & the track bar in the stock location on the axle (and probably cut off the frame drop bracket). I'm going to check my caster and order new bushings (I've got 6.5* bushings and will probably need 2* after the swap). When I take it apart to swap bushings, I'll move the spring perches & probably build a track bar riser.

On the EB and BB, the track bar is in front of the axle & the bar is bent back to the frame bracket. What if the track bar mount was directly above the axle & use a straight piece of DOM for a track bar? Another thing I can only figure out once the axles are installed.

Cha

[Jesus_man]

Straight links are always better than bent ones. However, there are some links (track bar) that are better to have bends than others.

Another option for ram assist is going off the diff cover. I just didn't like that option as well. My point being, even if you build your system not taking into account ram-assist, you can add it later fairly easy off a HD diff cover.

J.D.

[Gunnibronco]

I like your set up, and will probably incorporate it into my riser. I haven't read up on ram assist. Are there some generic measurements I could use to build the mount without the actual ram? What is the space needed to hold the ram end & what size bolt?

It also looks like it could be added on when/if I upgrade. Part of me wants to prepare for future projects, the other part wants to get the job done. I think once I'm on 35s, ram assist will become more important.

Chad

[Jesus_man]

You really need to pick a ram and get dimensions from there. You'll need to drill and tap your box in certain locations to run a ram, then you'll need hoses and finally the ram. My cousin and I run the same ram (not a name brand), but it's worked great for me for well over a year now. Was the cheapest I could find. If fact I could buy two for the price of what some of the others are selling for. I can find the link if you're interested. I want to say it was a 5/8" or 3/4" bolt. Just so happened that was the same size as my track bar at the axle. I made some metal spacers that were the same dimensions as the ram and the track bar bushing to use for welding the bracket together. After it all cooled, assembled it with the right stuff.

I am sure there is a much more detailed write-up about it somewhere that what I am telling you. But I got by for quite a while on 35's without ram assist. Sometimes it was not fun. Then a deal came up where a guy was selling a freshly rebuilt box that was already ported to run a ram and I jumped on it. Been happy since. There are still times that I cannot turn the tire, but those times are much fewer.

J.D.

[Shawns Fords]

Great idea on the coils! I may just do that with mine as well. Thanks for sharing. great looking project.

[Gunnibronco]

Great idea on the coils! I may just do that with mine as well. Thanks for sharing. great looking project.

I agree, that is the simplest/best way I've seen. I think I can incorporate a track bar riser as well.

Chad

[Gunnibronco]

I got started for real on Friday.

First, I pulled my old rear axle. Had to pull the brakes apart a little to get the e-brake cables disconnected. Disconnected the soft brake line at the axle, should have just pulled it off at the frame. I needed it later to build the new rear hard brake lines. Pulled the driveshaft, wheels, spring u-bolts, and lowered the axle out.

I found the rear spring alignment pins had bent/sheared off. I kinda knew this. A few days after installing my lift kit, 14 years ago, I took it for a drive & got a little too agressive. Ended up with loose axle u-bolts & shifted the axle. I bought 2x grade 8, 5/16"x2.5" bolts & grade 8 nyloc nuts to bolt the springs back together.

Then I rolled the new axle under the truck, roughly centered it, and jacked it up onto the new spring perches. I bought Roughstuff spring perchs, u-bolts, spring top plates, & axle shock mounts. This stuff is beefy. The only disapointment was that they didn't have the 2.25" spring perches, so I got 2.5" & welded a "cradle" out of 1/8" flat. Funny he doesn't make a perch for the EB, he is very active on classicbroncos.com. Otherwise good prices, good service, & bomber stuff. I'll be ordering some more stuff from him for sure.

Once the axle was close to centered, I started measuring from the brake backer plate to the spring perch. I found the 27.0 cm from the brake to the spring perch centered the axle.

[Colorado75bronc]

looks good so far man, and if you're talking about my coil setup, thank you, if ya weren't so far away i'd come over and help ya out