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Digger's '69 Build Thread
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Digger
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:53 pm Posts: 1276
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
_________________ Cummins R2.8 diesel, ZF5, AtlasII, HP44/BB9, ARBs, coiled / linked suspension, 37" KO2s, full cage, bumpers, etc. Build Thread:
Average 23.5 mpg, Best tank: 25.1 mpg
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Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:46 am |
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Strike2
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:34 am Posts: 808
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
Wow I envy your knowledge on fitting that motor in the engine bay, I wouldn't even know where to begin. Looking forward to the progress!
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Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:24 am |
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ZOSO
Moderator
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:58 pm Posts: 3906 Location: Henderson, Co
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
_________________ Rob
74 Ranger EFI351w, 4r70w, ARB 5.13 9in, ARB 5.13D44, and a bunch of other goodies. Best of all the family memories.
04 Mustang Cobra, KenneBell 2.2 feeding a lot of boost on E85. Tire shredding machine
New project: 77 Bronco Ranger, body work and more body work.
Very little left of a 72 durango tan explorer sport
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Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:03 am |
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Jesus_man
Official CCB Member
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:36 am Posts: 5984 Location: California
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
For having half the liters, it's amazing how big that motor still is!
_________________ 1973 Bronco, 351 SEFI, Locked, discs, 35's ZF-5spd and Atlas 4spd. 235:1 Crawl Ratio. It may be ugly, but it's slow. http://www.ucora.org
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Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:37 am |
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Kinder
Official CCB Member
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:03 pm Posts: 4371 Images: 0 Location: Parker, CO
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
Wow, that is great side by side shot, I didn’t expect the motor to be so symmetrically square. My 4BT is more tall than wide, I’ll have to dig up the dimensions so we can compare them.
_________________ Best to Date MPG: 26.6
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Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:17 pm |
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Digger
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:53 pm Posts: 1276
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
I had a few people comment on size difference, so I threw the intake and induction back on the 5.8 and used MS Paint to bring the two engines level with each other for relative size comparison. The Explorer front dress and induction system is more compact, but you get the idea.
_________________ Cummins R2.8 diesel, ZF5, AtlasII, HP44/BB9, ARBs, coiled / linked suspension, 37" KO2s, full cage, bumpers, etc. Build Thread:
Average 23.5 mpg, Best tank: 25.1 mpg
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Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:05 am |
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dbasile
Official CCB Member
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 6:01 am Posts: 135 Location: Silverthorne, CO
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
Wow! It is hard to believe that there is little size difference between the 2. The pic with the engines on the floor make the diesel look huge.
Can't wait to see the progression.
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Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:50 am |
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Digger
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:53 pm Posts: 1276
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
Made a little more progress. I've been busy measuring and modelling for the transmission adapter. Axis Industries has a few of these and frankly, they've distilled their design down pretty well. My first attempt looked way too much like their's. So much so, I considered trying to contact them again to discuss this project. BUT I had an idea today that simplifies the adapter and gets it away from looking like a copy.
First thing I had to do was mock up the business end of the Windsor block and make sure crank and bell housing dimensions were correct. Then I mated that to a section of the R2.8 and starting hashing out how to mate the two. This is the end result:
Here's the whole setup with a very quick and dirty transmission package. CAD Mockup 01.jpg
Adapter with Ford flywheel CAD Mockup 02.jpg
Without flywheel CAD Mockup 03.jpg
Exploded View CAD Mockup 04.jpg
I need to have a template LASER cut at work to confirm all the hole placements. After that, we'll be making chips.
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_________________ Cummins R2.8 diesel, ZF5, AtlasII, HP44/BB9, ARBs, coiled / linked suspension, 37" KO2s, full cage, bumpers, etc. Build Thread:
Average 23.5 mpg, Best tank: 25.1 mpg
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:33 am |
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Strike2
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:34 am Posts: 808
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
Digger, Your build make me feel like I'm working with poster board & large crayons
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:31 am |
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Jesus_man
Official CCB Member
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:36 am Posts: 5984 Location: California
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
ok, so the red part is the r2.8 and then the default SW colored part is your adapter? I am pickin' up what you're layin' down!
remind us again, you are sticking with a ZF5 correct?
_________________ 1973 Bronco, 351 SEFI, Locked, discs, 35's ZF-5spd and Atlas 4spd. 235:1 Crawl Ratio. It may be ugly, but it's slow. http://www.ucora.org
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:37 am |
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phyler
Official CCB Member
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:41 pm Posts: 1201 Location: Erie
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
_________________ 1975 Ranger Edition that I've had longer than I've been without it.
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:16 am |
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Digger
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:53 pm Posts: 1276
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
_________________ Cummins R2.8 diesel, ZF5, AtlasII, HP44/BB9, ARBs, coiled / linked suspension, 37" KO2s, full cage, bumpers, etc. Build Thread:
Average 23.5 mpg, Best tank: 25.1 mpg
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:39 am |
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Jesus_man
Official CCB Member
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:36 am Posts: 5984 Location: California
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
Gotcha. Such an awesome setup it will be!!
How many parts will the adapter be? I assume one for the flywheel as well?
_________________ 1973 Bronco, 351 SEFI, Locked, discs, 35's ZF-5spd and Atlas 4spd. 235:1 Crawl Ratio. It may be ugly, but it's slow. http://www.ucora.org
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:49 am |
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Digger
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:53 pm Posts: 1276
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
_________________ Cummins R2.8 diesel, ZF5, AtlasII, HP44/BB9, ARBs, coiled / linked suspension, 37" KO2s, full cage, bumpers, etc. Build Thread:
Average 23.5 mpg, Best tank: 25.1 mpg
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:37 am |
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Digger
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:53 pm Posts: 1276
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
Time for update. This adapter has consumed a lot of time in order to get it correct the first time. I felt the dimensions for the Cummins side of the adapter were pretty solid, but the dimensions for the Windsor block side of the adapter came mostly from the internet and we all know how reliable the internet is. Particularly, one dimension for the transmission bolt hole was different depending on the source. I needed to verify hole positions as best as possible before proceeding. I created a sheet metal part that contained all the holes from both sides of the adapter plus a pilot hole to align the input shaft to and had it cut out at work. I fit it to both ZF5s and the R2.8 and confirmed holes at least looked correct. Several holes have spacing that needs to be accurate to within a thousandth of an inch or so, which is hard to verify accurately. The other holes could be +/- 0.10". The mounting hole in question looks well centered based on the dimension I assumed was correct, but there is enough slop in this hole it likely doesn't matter.
_________________ Cummins R2.8 diesel, ZF5, AtlasII, HP44/BB9, ARBs, coiled / linked suspension, 37" KO2s, full cage, bumpers, etc. Build Thread:
Average 23.5 mpg, Best tank: 25.1 mpg
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Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:51 pm |
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Digger
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:53 pm Posts: 1276
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
_________________ Cummins R2.8 diesel, ZF5, AtlasII, HP44/BB9, ARBs, coiled / linked suspension, 37" KO2s, full cage, bumpers, etc. Build Thread:
Average 23.5 mpg, Best tank: 25.1 mpg
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Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:03 pm |
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Digger
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:53 pm Posts: 1276
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
Since the fuel system is getting rearranged, I will have to run new hard lines. Wanting to do things a little nicer than last time, I'm upgrading to stainless for brakes and fuel. I decided to order a roll of tubing instead of straight pieces to eliminate any fittings along the frame rail. This tube straightener is much bigger than I thought. The roll of 3/8" tube is HUGE After some additional CAD modelling, it became clear the stock engine mounts will not work. They are too far rearward in the engine bay. I could get the engine mounted but the stock mounts prevent the Cummins starter from being removed without pulling the engine. So those have to go. Annnnnd gone.
_________________ Cummins R2.8 diesel, ZF5, AtlasII, HP44/BB9, ARBs, coiled / linked suspension, 37" KO2s, full cage, bumpers, etc. Build Thread:
Average 23.5 mpg, Best tank: 25.1 mpg
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Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:13 pm |
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Digger
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:53 pm Posts: 1276
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
Getting back to the adapter... I spoke with our manufacturing engineer at work in order to get a recommendation on a machine shop. (our shop is busy most of the time) He looked at my project and thought we could fit it into the schedule, so we had some back and forth discussing how to produce my bell housing adapter, what machine should run it, who would program it and what was critical. I went ahead and purchased the raw material, a 50lb slab of 6061-T651 aluminum plate that measured 18"x18"x1.5" After about 4 weeks, it was time to run my part. The guys really did a great job. It was run in a horizontal mill with a pallet changer and a 35HP spindle. It made short work of my plate. The final product is beautiful and dead accurate. The guys CMMd the part and the critical dowel pins holes were all within 0.0002" of their nominal positions. The dowel holes were reamed, so press fit will be very precise.
_________________ Cummins R2.8 diesel, ZF5, AtlasII, HP44/BB9, ARBs, coiled / linked suspension, 37" KO2s, full cage, bumpers, etc. Build Thread:
Average 23.5 mpg, Best tank: 25.1 mpg
Last edited by Digger on Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:23 pm |
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Digger
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:53 pm Posts: 1276
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
With the bellhousing adapter finished, I needed turn the 10mm dowel pins down slightly. Given that the holes in the engine were reamed, I didn't have the right measuring tool to accurately measure the ID to 0.0001". So I ordered standard +tolerance dowel pins and test fit them. They almost wanted to go, but not quite. Because the dowels locate the engine to adapter to transmission, I couldn't just chuck them in the 3-jaw and turn them with cutting tools. I needed something more precise. Generally when you're working under 0.001", you need to grind, not cut, so I rigged up a makeshift tool post grinder with a Dremel tool. I also loaded the 4-jaw chuck and dialed the dowel pin to the lathe so there was less than 0.0001" runout. I ended up taking off 0.0004" over 4 passes of the grinder. You can barely tell anything was done, but the upper 14mm of the dowel is a smaller OD. Now the pins slides in easy, but is still tight enough to seal the air behind it. After grinding a lead-in chamfer, I pressed all 4 dowels into place.
_________________ Cummins R2.8 diesel, ZF5, AtlasII, HP44/BB9, ARBs, coiled / linked suspension, 37" KO2s, full cage, bumpers, etc. Build Thread:
Average 23.5 mpg, Best tank: 25.1 mpg
Last edited by Digger on Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:39 pm |
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Digger
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:53 pm Posts: 1276
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
Now for the moment of truth... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Perfect! The fit on the engine side was so perfect and tight, I had to slide the adapter in very squarely or it could get stuck, but lined up right, it just slid right on. I also checked the starter clearance. Just enough.
_________________ Cummins R2.8 diesel, ZF5, AtlasII, HP44/BB9, ARBs, coiled / linked suspension, 37" KO2s, full cage, bumpers, etc. Build Thread:
Average 23.5 mpg, Best tank: 25.1 mpg
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Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:45 pm |
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Digger
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:53 pm Posts: 1276
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
While the guys at work were machining the bellhousing adapter, I was at home working on the crank adapter. I already had to redesign this once after sourcing material proved to be difficult. Now it's a little smaller. The crank adapter proved to be a challenge to manage all the tolerance stackup over all the features of two adapters plus flywheel etc. After giving some thought to the manufacturing approach, I got started. Starting out with raw stock... ...I faced the part (after dialing it into the lathe), punched the center bore which located the 2nd crank adapter, and turned the counterbore that locates the adapter to the crank. Tolerances for the critical features were all sub-thousandth of an inch. I was aiming for 0.0003 or less deviation from print. Turning the hub face for the starter ring A-side completed. And test fitted
_________________ Cummins R2.8 diesel, ZF5, AtlasII, HP44/BB9, ARBs, coiled / linked suspension, 37" KO2s, full cage, bumpers, etc. Build Thread:
Average 23.5 mpg, Best tank: 25.1 mpg
Last edited by Digger on Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:58 pm |
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Digger
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:53 pm Posts: 1276
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
_________________ Cummins R2.8 diesel, ZF5, AtlasII, HP44/BB9, ARBs, coiled / linked suspension, 37" KO2s, full cage, bumpers, etc. Build Thread:
Average 23.5 mpg, Best tank: 25.1 mpg
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Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:09 pm |
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Kinder
Official CCB Member
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:03 pm Posts: 4371 Images: 0 Location: Parker, CO
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
Just Wow!
_________________ Best to Date MPG: 26.6
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Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:19 am |
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Jesus_man
Official CCB Member
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:36 am Posts: 5984 Location: California
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
_________________ 1973 Bronco, 351 SEFI, Locked, discs, 35's ZF-5spd and Atlas 4spd. 235:1 Crawl Ratio. It may be ugly, but it's slow. http://www.ucora.org
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Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:09 am |
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mickphatmac
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:26 am Posts: 1810 Images: 14 Location: Evans,CO
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
_________________ 1968 3.5" Lift on 31's Front serpentine belt ViperBuilt 4x4x2 PS C4 '66 Speedo '66 Horn Button- STROPPE goodies: Steering Wheel, Roll Bar, Cactus Smasher SOLD :(1972 Explorer Sport - '66 Eyebrow Grill - '66 Speedometer - Stroppe Steering Wheel - Stroppe RollBar - ViperBuilt C4
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Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:06 am |
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landshark
Official CCB Member
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:16 am Posts: 3942 Location: Denver, Wash Park Area
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
you have gone . love it
_________________ 1976 Bronco "Green, Yellow, whatever", 1969 Bronco "Red", 1972 Bronco Stocker "Kind of Blue/Grayish"
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Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:15 am |
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pgilbeau
Official CCB Member
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:06 pm Posts: 639 Location: Falcon, CO
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
Great work, you make it look easy!
_________________ 1969 Bronco: Full widths, 3 linked front end, 37's, hydro-boost, 4x4x2 box, ZF5, Atlas t-case, and fuel injected 302
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Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:26 pm |
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BroncoRaider
Official CCB Member
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:47 am Posts: 531 Location: Stapleton
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
Unbelievable.
_________________ “Buddy” - 1975 Bronco Sport, 302/Viperbuilt 4R70W/D20, Explorer EFI, More Patina than Paint...
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Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:17 pm |
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BOBS 2 68S
Official CCB Member
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:19 pm Posts: 375 Location: Hudson
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
Very nice! Machinist porn on the Bronco porn site
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Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:55 am |
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Eck
Official CCB Member
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:33 pm Posts: 2460
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Re: Digger's '69 Build Thread
high five.gif
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_________________ 69 Wagon, 351W, Explorer EFI & Serpentine, ZF5, 35" tires, 3.5 SL, 2 BL, WARN 8274
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Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:45 am |
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