build thread from the wind tunnel

[Justin]

Got it, thanks. For some reason I'd read it as you using the 14b stuff on the front as well, which seemed odd. May have just read it too fast

[Gunnibronco]

A quick update-

I've been working out lots of the "details" of things.

Switching to the 14 B/FF set up has been a learning process. I'm trying to figure out the best hub and rotor combo that will fit with my WMS and wheels. My first combo had the rotor hanging out of the rims and would have been exposed for damage. In short I learned there is a difference between the "gen 1" 14 bolt hubs (up to 89) and the "gen 2" hubs (89-99). I have a set of "gen 2" hubs and will have a set of "gen 1" hubs tomorrow hopefully. So between the 2 sets of hubs and 2 different rotors, I'll find a set that works with my wheels and WMS. I'm waiting on spindles so I can test fit everything and make final adjustments to the housing if needed for my WMS. Spindles and the second rotors should arrive today. Unfortunately, I'm leaving town Sunday morning for about 10 days and won't be able to work on it for a while.

The switch to 8 lug also increased the brake caliper size drastically so I'm reevaluating my MC size. The Mustang MC is only 1" and won't push the 96 F350 brakes (dual 2.2" pistons) and the Chevy rears (2-15/16" pistons). Of course the Mustang HB won't work with any other MCs, it's an oddball. Plans are to go to the 08 Superduty HB and MC. The MC has a 1.5" bore and the 08 SD brake caliper sizes are very similar to my set up.

Plus for some random reason the truck leaked a bunch of antifreeze after sitting for 1 month. I first noticed a puddle under the heater box on the floor, then I noticed the upper radiator hose leaked at the radiator. I pulled everything apart and can't figure out why it leaked. The heater core is good, hoses are good. It just decided to leak at the hose connections.

I heat wrapped most the length of the exhaust from the headers to the muffler. The heat distorted a wire loom I ran and affected my OBA air hose between the motor and the tank. It was all about 4"-5" away from the exhaust. The wrap will also hopefully help keep the cab cooler in the summer. I'm going to reroute the wiring and air hose further from the exhaust as well for good measure.

I did slide the front housing under the rig last night and everything looks pretty good. I even think the radius arms will work without a bend, but I'm not 100% sure, it's close. I definitely will have to move the springs back to the narrow stock width. At the old "full width" spacing the lower spring perch is right where the inner C is now. The D60 inner C to WMS is about 3" wider than the D44.

[Jesus_man]

I've noticed the rotors hanging out inboard of the wheels a few times. I'm not a fan either, so hopefully you can get them tucked in!

[Gunnibronco]

I've noticed the rotors hanging out inboard of the wheels a few times. I'm not a fan either, so hopefully you can get them tucked in!

My first attempt was with Gen2 hubs and the typical disk conversion rotors (normally used with Gen1 hubs). They would have been about .75" inboard of the wheels.

I have a set of rotors that will arrive today. These should put the rotors just even with the rim with Gen2 hubs.

I'll see how the Gen1 hubs and Gen1 rotors fit as well. I think they will be very close to even with the rim as well.

There are so many details WMS, back spacing, rotor exposure, front locking hub exposure, etc. The narrower WMS (65.5"-66") than true full width, and cutting the housings, then changing plans has made it more complicated than necessary. Also, a wider 10" rim would make the rotor/locking hub exposure a non-issue. I *think* both the above combos will work.

[Gunnibronco]

First things first, I'm going to need to trim more metal.

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Actually, I mounted those for the guy who is helping me with my axles (42" Competition Treps on double beadlock Trailworthy wheels). They will get installed on a 1200hp rockbouncer he is building. And FYI that is my Bronco at ride height (about a 3.5" lift with lots of cutting already).

Another pic just to make 37's look small.

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The last month or so has been a mess, travel out of town, wrong parts, leaking jack, 2 sets of weird/incorrect FF hubs, screwed up/delayed orders from Ruffstuff, Ballistic, and Barnes.

I now have a SD H-booster and M/C and reservoirs to make it all fit under the hood. I'm going to make a clocking ring to turn the HB 90* to clear the EFI upper manifold.

I finally got my hands on the right SRW hubs (one was so rusted I had to cut the retainer nut off and spindle to free the hub). They are both useable, but I'll be looking for another so the rusty/beat one can become a "spare." The first set of hubs I got fit 99 and up disk brake AAM 14 Bolts, I think. They have a narrow bearing spacing and will not fit the aftermarket spindles sold by Soild/RS. I also managed to find a set of D60 hubs and spindles that Chevy stopped using in 1972, they have an odd ball bearing and spindle diameter that doesn't match the Solid/RS spindles either.

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Now that I know the WMS offset of the SRW hubs and spindles, I need to make the final cuts to the rear axle tubes.

This weekend I put the centers into the axle housings and test fit and measured for driveline angles and lengths and see how everything is going to fit. So far so good. I was hoping to get away from the double cardan with the HP diffs, but it doesn't look possible - at least in the rear. I'm going to talk to Tom Woods with my measurements. I called them a couple weeks ago and they were incredibly helpful talking me through everything.

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Things are slow going but it's about time to make the final decisions and weld things together.

[Jesus_man]

Glad to see an update!! So sorry to hear about all the wrong parts etc... Seems reliability is no where to be found these days!

Everything looks sweet! I think you should keep the Treps! Just make your suspension all droop!

[Strike2]

Those axles are sick! I like how your build is turning out

[Gunnibronco]

Glad to see an update!! So sorry to hear about all the wrong parts etc... Seems reliability is no where to be found these days!

Everything looks sweet! I think you should keep the Treps! Just make your suspension all droop!

Those Treps are ridiculous. It was a wrestling match until I figured out the best way to get the PVC inserts into the tires. I'll get a pic of the bouncer next time I'm there.

Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk

[Gunnibronco]

Those axles are sick! I like how your build is turning out

Thanks hopefully they are my forever axles.

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[BOBS 2 68S]

F&%ing Amazing

[Gunnibronco]

F&%ing Amazing

Thanks!

[Gunnibronco]

Yesterday I took my axles back to my "machine shop" and Trona burned in the inner C's and spindles. It took a little machine work to turn the spindles down to a press fit (BFH) into the tubes. I don't have pics right now, but I took a few of the rockbouncer to over.

Whipple supercharged 427 LS motor, rear steer. Bouncers are usually built for higher speeds than the local rock crawling so he's added a doubler and a "monster truck" transfer case (quick change gears). He will be building his own aluminum trailing arms (and maybe leading arms) to replace the 4 link once his Haas is up and running later this summer. He's modeling it after Tim Cameron's Tyrant rock bouncer. After things are up and running he will be swapping his own custom steering 14 bolt front axle for the D60 it came with. He's planning to race at KOH next year, and if everything goes right I'm planning to go as part of his team.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ck+bouncer

This thing is just wild. I can't wait to see it running.

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Sitting on 42s

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[Jesus_man]

Yeah, that's quite a machine!! Pit crew would be a blast!!

And great to hear of your progress.

[Gunnibronco]

Yeah, that's quite a machine!! Pit crew would be a blast!!

And great to hear of your progress.

Thanks. I've also been working on a clocking ring for the 08' SD hydroboost/mc.

My plan is to order axle shafts now that the housings are finalized. I can also start placing brackets, building radius arms, track bar, etc. I'm excited to finally be making things permanent and moving forward. It really seemed like I might start gaining momentum, but it looks like I'm traveling back east for about 10 days for work later this week.

[Gunnibronco]

Here are some pics of the housings with the spindles and knuckles welded on. The spindles needed turned down to fit the axle tubes even though both were supposed to be 2.75". Even once turned down to less than .001 interference, one side needed heated to get fully seated. Everything is looking good, and I will be calling Dutchman today to discuss measuring for the new axle shafts. WMS is at 66" for both front and rear axles.

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I built a clock ring to turn the 08 SuperDuty Hydrobooster 90*. I replaced the super tall stock reservoir with two of the larger Astro van M/C reservoirs. This will get me a 1.5" bore MC for the larger 1 ton brakes I'm using. It was inspired by this thread

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threa ... ad.301339/

He has his EFI upper turned to the driver side, so there is no interference with the stock SD HB & MC. I started with a .25" spacer but had to add another .25" to get the reservoir to clear the HB pressure can. I also used my old Mustang HB mount plate since my firewall was already drilled for it and it angled the assembly away from the EFI upper. I think it works with the stock SD mount plate, since many are using this set up with a smaller Dodge MC. I'll need to shorten my PS hoses and clock the fittings to work. I also need to make a .5" "bullet" spacer to fit between the HB pushrod and the MC. I made a .25" bullet before I realized the spacer needed to be .5". I still need to finish the pedal rod (it needs to be longer), and it may need some adjustments to deal with the angled Mustang bracket.

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I think I've "named" my axles, they will be known as TGW (Trail Gear Works) HP1060 (front) and TGW HP1014 (rear). LOL

[Jesus_man]

Looks like everything is fitting nicely! I wonder if you could add some sort of threaded rod and jam nut in your brake pedal so you could dial in the length perfectly? I don't know that one is made with opposing threads on either end?? But you could weld in a left handed nut on one end of a small pipe and a right handed on the other??

[Gunnibronco]

Looks like everything is fitting nicely! I wonder if you could add some sort of threaded rod and jam nut in your brake pedal so you could dial in the length perfectly? I don't know that one is made with opposing threads on either end?? But you could weld in a left handed nut on one end of a small pipe and a right handed on the other??

I had to do this on my Mustang HB as well. I just cut and threaded the push rod and added a threaded coupler nut. This one needs to be longer than the coupler nut allows, so I'm thinking of taking a matching bolt and cutting/welding it to the pedal end of the pushrod for the extra 1" I need.

[Gunnibronco]

I have been plugging away at this. I'm not keeping track of everything exactly, I'm just trying to get through each step and get back on the road. As usual each step is taking longer than expected, and there are many more steps than expected.

I'm working on the front steering and radius arms and all the associated brackets. My tie rod and drag link are shorter than my D44 so I've been able to cut them to fit. I have had to build a new track bar which involved a minor bend to allow full stuff without hitting the oil pan. The .25 wall DOM exceeded the capacity of my bender, but I lived to tell the tale. The follower pin did not fair so well. The track bar angles were good, but the length decreased significantly, so I built a new bracket to extend it as long as possible.

I've customized the Barnes radius arm/lower coil mounts to accept the Bronco coils. The lower coil mount changes were inspired/stolen from the typical upgraded mounts sold by our Bronco vendors.

I'm now cutting down my front frame crossmember to allow full steering lock with the right tire at full stuff. I'll plate everything with 3/16" when I'm done.

Everything on the front axle is mostly tacked together. I have a few adjustments left, and then decide on where to set the uppers. I have to make some adjustments to the Ballistic uppers, they hang too far away from the frame and are wider than my lowers. I have cycled everything and mounted the wheels/tires. I can cycle the steering from lock to lock and not rub the radius arms (barely).

Overall I'm very happy with the way the suspension and steering is coming out. I have about 4.5" up travel with full steering lock to lock without any interference. Pinion angle and caster (7.5*) came out right where I planned. One note, pulling/disconnecting one short upper radius arm link makes a dramatic difference in the flexibility of the suspension. I can't overstate how much easier/independently the suspension cycles without it. I'm either going to be removing it for wheeling or building a pinned design. You wouldn't want it disconnected for on-road driving, at all.

New Dutchman front inner and rear axle shafts are here. Fronts will be factory 30 spline outers until the budget allows for 35 spline shafts and lockouts or slugs.

Some pics, not great but proof of progress.

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[Justin]

That looks awesome! Following closely.

[Gunnibronco]

That looks awesome! Following closely.

Thanks. Don't hold your breath. Life and work keeps getting in the way. I think progress is going to even get slower for the next couple months.

[Jesus_man]

Great work Chad! Glad you are ok with the bender snafu!

[Gunnibronco]

Great work Chad! Glad you are ok with the bender snafu!

Thanks. I knew I was asking for trouble making the bend. I rigged up my air line to the bender so I could control it from the compressor, while hiding behind my tool box.

[Gunnibronco]

My business trip was put off by one week so I'm pushing through everything I can.

I finish welded my front axle, track bar bracket and upper coil buckets, and the front frame crossmember. Hydraulic hoses are made for the new Superduty H-boost and wheels are balanced. Lots more to go but making progress.

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[Jesus_man]

Yes!! Is your top coil bucket double thickness or is that an illusion?

[Gunnibronco]

Yes!! Is your top coil bucket double thickness or is that an illusion?

Its a piece of 1"x1/8" flat stock I added around the front edge for strength. I hope that makes sense.

Years ago Corey suggested I add that lip to the Battlement Fab uppers I had. His had bent slightly from the weight of the truck.

So I added it to these as well. They are Ballistic Fab with the added lip, the upper plate is moved about 1" inboard from their narrowest setting, and I had to modify the retainer plates to match the Bronco coil configuration. Nothing is "off the shelf" even the custom parts.

[Jesus_man]

I see! Might copy your idea! I was shocked to learn the upper coil buckets I have put the center of spring a minimum of 5" from the outside surface of the frame. Stock is 3". Unless, like you, I cut them apart and move them inward, which it sounds like I may have to do. Seems like they are for putting FW axles under these rigs??

[Gunnibronco]

I see! Might copy your idea! I was shocked to learn the upper coil buckets I have put the center of spring a minimum of 5" from the outside surface of the frame. Stock is 3". Unless, like you, I cut them apart and move them inward, which it sounds like I may have to do. Seems like they are for putting FW axles under these rigs??

That set was the set Battlement Fab sent me "accidentally". They were not as wide as the set he ended up making for my 1/2 ton full width axles (3/4 & 1 ton are even wider). I think BF copied the Ballistic design.

I did run my rig with the narrow stock uppers and full width axles for several years. Coils were very bowed out, but everything performed well and you wouldn't know it from driving it. So maybe try it and see if it works before cutting everything up. The coils are very forgiving.

Since my new axle is 1/2 ton width with 1 ton steering/knuckles my coils are closer to stock width apart 38". I *think* 37" is about stock axle spacing. My uppers are about 38.5" now. The Ballistic uppers came in pieces so I was able to modify things and move it around pretty easily.

[Gunnibronco]

I was home last week and got a fair amount of work done. Finish welded the radius arms and track bar, and put it back on it's own front springs and tires for the first time since January. Feels like there should be more to list, but progress is progress.

I still need to set bump stops, shocks, breather vent and brake lines on the front axle, then take it all apart for paint.

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I've spent a lot of time thinking about the rear suspension and decided I'm going to make a couple adjustments before installing the rear axle.

First, I missed on the height of the rear end when I installed my springs. It's about 2" lower than what I wanted. I'm currently running with a 1" lift block, but still sitting low in the rear. I don't think I put enough weight in it while test fitting the springs. Also, I saw a Youtube video recently that stressed setting the complete weight of the vehicle on the springs BEFORE tightening down any bolts that run through bushings. Tightening the bolts before everything is settled will bind the bushing and prevent it from rotating to where it belongs. I noticed my Bronco "lost" 1" in rear height when I moved, so I think I had it bolted together with a little extra lift that settled out on the trailer ride to NV.

Second, my shackle angle is too close to 90*. I'm afraid it may invert the spring if it droops too far, and I think I may be sacrificing some travel.

I'm going to remove the shackle hanger and build a new one that will sit 3" lower and about 1.5" forward. I'm also planning to make new shackles at 6" long to replace the current 5" shackles. This should give me more height, allow me to remove the lift block, and put my shackle angle at a better place. Hopefully it won't change my spring rate too much. I want to make these changes before setting up the rear axle pinion angle, leaf spring perches, and brakes.

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I also got to ride in the rockbouncer on it's first shake down run.

The owner said he wasn't going to do anything "dumb" so no need for belts or helmets. Right? Wrong! This rig is so ridiculous, it's hard not to do "dumb" stuff. The owner's land backs up to BLM and we took it for a spin. On the way back to his house, he hit a boulder (I never saw it) at about 40 mph. Destroyed a brand new $1200 42" Trep and the hand held tuner for the Holly fuel injection. I'm just happy we didn't flip with no seat belts on. Lesson learned. Here it is pulling out of the shop for the first time. Let me know if the video doesn't work.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/F6pTyrMouCMKRt5W6

[Jesus_man]

That's looking great Chad!! I think you should just clearcoat the axle!!

I wish there was a better way around getting more lift in the rear aside from custom springs. Shackles in the rear like that won't be in the way as much as they would in the front (think CJ, YJ), but there will be times they will be in the way.

[Gunnibronco]

That's looking great Chad!! I think you should just clearcoat the axle!!

I wish there was a better way around getting more lift in the rear aside from custom springs. Shackles in the rear like that won't be in the way as much as they would in the front (think CJ, YJ), but there will be times they will be in the way.

Interesting thought on clear coating the axle. That would be cool. I'm not sure clear will stick to bare steel, but I'll have to look into it.

Regarding the rear spring shackles, the way I see it the bottom of the shackle will remain nearly the same. The longer shackle and lowering the hanger only lifts the frame. Removing my lift block will slightly lower the bottom of the shackle. So it's not making too much of a negative difference. That is the reason I don't want to lower the front spring hangers, they are tucked up above the frame rail. Even custom springs really won't fix that unless I go to a shackle in tension (above the hanger) and an arched spring set. If I decide to completely redo the rear suspension again it won't be leaf sprung.